When can you start classifying someone as a threat?

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  • MuncieFud

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    Jun 8, 2018
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    Scenario: It’s around 11pm on the outskirts of Indy at a sparsely populated gas station. A women sees a man approaching as she is pumping gas. She doesn’t feel that she can make it into the car before the man would get to her. She engages verbally and says she doesn’t have any money. The man continues to approach with no visible weapons. She feels in danger, puts her hand on her gun (doesn’t draw, doesn’t say she has a gun, doesn’t do so in a way to try and brandish) in case the man doesn’t stop. The man sees this says something along the lines of I wasn’t going to rob you, I need gas money and gives his sob story (he’s driving a niceish car) And eventually leaves.

    The question: If this hypothetical scenario were to happen to my girlfriend (or anyone else) what’s the best course of action here?

    If I saw a range weapon I would engage the person as a threat. If it was something like a knife or bat I would issue verbal commands until I felt that I had no other choice than to use force. We all know unarmed does not mean not a threat, so where does a person become a threat? Draw to a low ready and issue commands? Draw the gun and try to get your keys out so you can get in your car? Retreat even though its away from the well lit area and further from the people inside the gas station?
     

    MCgrease08

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    There are steps involved in managing an unknown contact to determine if someone is a threat.

    For example, when someone approaches you hold up your hands in front of your chest and verbally say, "hey, hold up a minute. That's close enough."

    Most normal folks will stop there. If they continue, you say forcefully, "STOP!" with hands still raised. Again, a well meaning person will stop. They might think you're a dick, but they will stop.

    At this point, anyone that continues to advance has qualified themself as a threat. Before they reach you yell, "back the **** up!" That will draw the attention of any bystanders who will see you with your hands out in a defensive yet submissive posture and rightfully assume the other person is an aggressor.

    From this point if they continue to advance it's time to prepare to defend yourself. Whether or not that means drawing a gun depends on the scenario, including the size of the aggressor, whether or not they have a weapon, your age and theirs. Basically the factors that determine disparity of force. At the very least you should be prepared to go hands on to defend yourself.

    Take a managing confrontations class to learn pre attack cues and role play the various steps. A good force on force class will let you practice the hands on defense aspect. But if you're good at managing contacts, you're much less likely to get to the force stage.

    ETA: Chez cut right to the chase with the link. Everything I described above I learned in that class.
     

    BigRed

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    Knowing when you can start classifying someone as a threat can be less clear then knowing when someone is no longer a threat.
     

    Thor

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    Could be anywhere
    Scenario: It’s around 11pm on the outskirts of Indy at a sparsely populated gas station. A: I wouldn't be there. B: Everyone is a threat.

    If you're pumping gas just stop, point the spigot at him and take a lighter out of your pocket and say "do you really want to go here sparky?"
     

    Coach

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    In any situation: ask yourself one question. If I don t shoot this person am I going to die or be severly injure? If the answer is yes. Shoot them. If the answer is anuthing but yes do something else.

    The safe course of action is treat everyone as a rhreat, but your actions must be reasonable.
     

    churchmouse

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    In any situation: ask yourself one question. If I don t shoot this person am I going to die or be severly injure? If the answer is yes. Shoot them. If the answer is anuthing but yes do something else.

    The safe course of action is treat everyone as a rhreat, but your actions must be reasonable.

    Bingo.

    Every gas station on every corner will have a miscreant or 2 lurking or on the way there. I was leaving AllenM's place out in Avon one day and stopped to fill my truck on Rockville rd. A fairly new blazer pulled into a pump close to me. Douche-bag got out and started approaching everyone at the pumps panhandling. I watched is game and when he got close to me I put up left hand and gave him the "Oh Hell No" look. He called me a white prick and turned to leave. I just smiled and agreed.I am white and I can be a prick if provoked. They left and pulled into the station just down the street and started the same game. I will bet even money the drove out to the target rich Avon hunting grounds from the city.

    Were they dangerous..??
    I do not care to find out. I see this crap all the time.
    If they saw a very soft target would they escalate the game for a quick hit.....you betcha most of them would.

    If you are being "Approached" keep you spidey senses engaged.
     

    Denny347

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    If you understand pre-attack indicators then you can explain the specific actions the suspect made that caused you to fear for your safety/life. If you don't understand that, all you can articulate is that you had a "gut" feeling or the hair was raised on the back of your neck and that won't be enough to justify your actions. Know what CAUSED the gut feeling. Your brain is seeing it, you are just not recognizing it.
     

    churchmouse

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    If you understand pre-attack indicators then you can explain the specific actions the suspect made that caused you to fear for your safety/life. If you don't understand that, all you can articulate is that you had a "gut" feeling or the hair was raised on the back of your neck and that won't be enough to justify your actions. Know what CAUSED the gut feeling. Your brain is seeing it, you are just not recognizing it.

    Winner.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    May 12, 2013
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    If you understand pre-attack indicators then you can explain the specific actions the suspect made that caused you to fear for your safety/life. If you don't understand that, all you can articulate is that you had a "gut" feeling or the hair was raised on the back of your neck and that won't be enough to justify your actions. Know what CAUSED the gut feeling. Your brain is seeing it, you are just not recognizing it.

    And if you find yourself doing this, see post #2 and take the class.

    I've taken some training on the topic as part of bigger courses. I really need to take that course. What Ive learned has already kept me out of trouble twice, where before I wouldn't have thought anything about what was approaching and gotten sucked into a bad situation.
     

    flatlander

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    Per a class with Coach, read this- "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. This will articulate your "spidey" feelings very well.
    Where I work, if you haven't developed the pre-fight indicators observation skills, somebodies going to get hurt really bad. Then they say, "It came out of nowhere!"

    Bob
     
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