Rails and Lights

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  • Trapper Jim

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    Spent about 2 years back in the day when rails and mounted lights came about. Turned out they were not up to my standards then for CC. I have revisited it this year and have found that in the market place there are now some really good options on the market that come closer to being worth the carry. However, in my tests this year with darkhouse shooting I find that over all I am more efficient with independently controlling my own light source when shooting. I have rediscovered that the rail slows down my presentation, increases maintenance on mounting brackets and electrical circuits,exposes my location,ruins the natural balanced engineered into the pistol, and after the first shot, diffuses the smoke where I can not see anything, like bright headlights in a heavy fog. What am I missing that this option seems so popular that many pistols today throw the rail in for free.?
     

    JollyMon

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    Mainly to keep both hands on the pistol while shooting with the light on... with an ease of turning it on. With a stand alone flashlight you are doing the strong hand / weak hand , or doing some weird grip to keep the flashlight and pistol gripped together.

    plus even then you deal with the same issues as listed before
     

    Vigilant

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    Weapon mounted lights allow as Jolly said, a full firing grip on your weapon. Not some jostled/cobbled up manual of arms for a separate handheld light. I still use both, and I understand you dislike anything without wood or blued steel, but a Glock 19/X300u, and a Surefire Tactician backup handheld is a damned near unbeatable combination.
     

    Coach

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    WML allow much faster shooting and much more accurate shooting in lowlight or dark conditions. Night stand gun should have one attached.
     

    Anima mundi

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    More hands on the gun is more gooder. Handheld lights are a compromise and a secondary option at best when your primary concern is to shoot the gun both quickly and accurately.
     

    Dean C.

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    h4sNsDRh.jpg


    Honestly I think my Government Model swings better with the SureFire, plus their products are bombproof (except the small XC-1 that light is TRASH). Plus as others have said it keeps your hands free to run the gun whcih should really be the primary focus as well not trying to hold a light and support the gun in some akward 1980’s FBI thing
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Mainly to keep both hands on the pistol while shooting with the light on... with an ease of turning it on. With a stand alone flashlight you are doing the strong hand / weak hand , or doing some weird grip to keep the flashlight and pistol gripped together.

    plus even then you deal with the same issues as listed before


    the assumption here is that you are comparing the WML to the way we struggled with the genesis of lighting up night shooting. Agreed some very cumbersome methods. However there are other options one can consider that allows you to light the area without mounting the gun, A choice that may be lifesaving to all parties in the moment, giving away your location or diffusing the sight picture while not sacrificing your ability to present and neutralize the target. Each situation is and will be different and with perception being reality to many, I prefer to expand my ability to be independent of shooting and illuminating unless it applies to Special Ops, Police or Military applications. With a WML you cannot illuminate without a careless muzzle and many other cons. And there is the fact that with all the baggage a WML brings, it will more than likely be needed less than .01 % of the all the rounds you should put through the gun otherwise unless you have a dedicated nightstand model. I have always got a chuckle out of Clint Smith as he has a Light mounted shotgun that allows him to get to the light switch. Just something to ponder.
     

    JollyMon

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    the assumption here is that you are comparing the WML to the way we struggled with the genesis of lighting up night shooting. Agreed some very cumbersome methods. However there are other options one can consider that allows you to light the area without mounting the gun, A choice that may be lifesaving to all parties in the moment, giving away your location or diffusing the sight picture while not sacrificing your ability to present and neutralize the target. Each situation is and will be different and with perception being reality to many, I prefer to expand my ability to be independent of shooting and illuminating unless it applies to Special Ops, Police or Military applications. With a WML you cannot illuminate without a careless muzzle and many other cons. And there is the fact that with all the baggage a WML brings, it will more than likely be needed less than .01 % of the all the rounds you should put through the gun otherwise unless you have a dedicated nightstand model. I have always got a chuckle out of Clint Smith as he has a Light mounted shotgun that allows him to get to the light switch. Just something to ponder.

    Its dark half of your life , davey.

    I prefer to carry both a stand alone and a weapon mounted. Like I said I want all the lumens.

    Maybe I should just wear a headlamp, turned on all the time, not practice any light discipline, while rocking my muzzleloader, and wearing a coon hat... thats more your style

    Furthermore, your op stated you like something more then others and wondered why they put a rail on a pistol. We gave you reasons and they are very valid reason. It doesnt mean it doesnt have a flaws, just like your method, but it has more positives then negatives in my opinion. I would prefer to have a wml and a standalone... hell I just watched a self defense video today where he (Popo) dropped his flashlight during a traffic stop gone wrong. Then what you going to do.. "ugg time out bad guy, I dropped my flashlight, wait no found it... game on"
     
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    Coach

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    Honestly I think my Government Model swings better with the SureFire, plus their products are bombproof (except the small XC-1 that light is TRASH). Plus as others have said it keeps your hands free to run the gun whcih should really be the primary focus as well not trying to hold a light and support the gun in some akward 1980’s FBI thing

    The FBI technique is not the most awkward method in my opinion. But most are suboptimal.
     

    rhino

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    the assumption here is that you are comparing the WML to the way we struggled with the genesis of lighting up night shooting. Agreed some very cumbersome methods. However there are other options one can consider that allows you to light the area without mounting the gun, A choice that may be lifesaving to all parties in the moment, giving away your location or diffusing the sight picture while not sacrificing your ability to present and neutralize the target. Each situation is and will be different and with perception being reality to many, I prefer to expand my ability to be independent of shooting and illuminating unless it applies to Special Ops, Police or Military applications. With a WML you cannot illuminate without a careless muzzle and many other cons. And there is the fact that with all the baggage a WML brings, it will more than likely be needed less than .01 % of the all the rounds you should put through the gun otherwise unless you have a dedicated nightstand model. I have always got a chuckle out of Clint Smith as he has a Light mounted shotgun that allows him to get to the light switch. Just something to ponder.

    Some people may not be able to use a WML to illuminate without pointing the muzzle where they don't want to point it, but other people who know how to do it can. Modern LED WML that produce a lot of light illuminate indirectly with the spill or with reflections & spill from the floor, the wall, or the ceiling.

    Given that, the either/or choice is a false dichotomy. Best practice is to have both. A handheld light is a critically important piece of gear independent of whether not a WML is also available. You can do everything with a handheld light in conjunction with a WML that you can with only a handheld, but if you need to shoot, you have the option of ditching the handheld as needed and shooting far more efficiently with the WML.

    Anyone who carries a gun without a weapon-mounted light needs to carry a handheld light.
    Anyone who carries a gun with a weapon-mounted light needs to carry a handheld light.
    Anyone who doesn't carry a gun needs to carry a handheld light.
    Everyone needs to carry a handheld light regardless of what else they do or do not carry.
     

    flatlander

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    The answer to all your questions and comments is training. Listen to those that know what they are talking about. You don't know what you don't know.
    Contempt prior to investigation is the very definition of ignorance.

    Bob
     

    jkdbjj

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    Some people may not be able to use a WML to illuminate without pointing the muzzle where they don't want to point it, but other people who know how to do it can. Modern LED WML that produce a lot of light illuminate indirectly with the spill or with reflections & spill from the floor, the wall, or the ceiling.

    Given that, the either/or choice is a false dichotomy. Best practice is to have both. A handheld light is a critically important piece of gear independent of whether not a WML is also available. You can do everything with a handheld light in conjunction with a WML that you can with only a handheld, but if you need to shoot, you have the option of ditching the handheld as needed and shooting far more efficiently with the WML.

    Anyone who carries a gun without a weapon-mounted light needs to carry a handheld light.
    Anyone who carries a gun with a weapon-mounted light needs to carry a handheld light.
    Anyone who doesn't carry a gun needs to carry a handheld light.
    Everyone needs to carry a handheld light regardless of what else they do or do not carry.


    Right on.
     

    Coach

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    Something else to consider is that a hand held light with gun outfitted with and optic is a different beast than an iron sighted gun. Some good flash light techniques with an iron sighted gun are not good techniques with an optic.
     

    MikeHoncho

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    My truck gun has a TLR-2 on it. Not because I need the laser to be accurate but more as a means of intimidation perhaps? I feel like I'd change my tune pretty quickly if I couldn't see anything but a bright red dot on me.
     

    Coach

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    A red dot on the chest is universally understood and it cuts across language barriers very well. I have been involved in a situation where a patrolling officer had a red dot appear on his chest and saw first hand how the situation changed drastically. I would not understand the ability of a laser to get attention like few other things. Not having to shoot someone would be a huge victory.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    A red dot on the chest is universally understood and it cuts across language barriers very well. I have been involved in a situation where a patrolling officer had a red dot appear on his chest and saw first hand how the situation changed drastically. I would not understand the ability of a laser to get attention like few other things. Not having to shoot someone would be a huge victory.


    Agreed but with a the right conditions. Just like the sound of an 870 being racked the recipient must see or hear it to react. Most perps do not go around staring at their chest in the heat of the moment. It is all an attention grabber at this point and the time spent sending signals or intimidating could be used to flee and avoid the fight all together. It is all relevant to the time you have in the situation. When the adrenaline gets going on both parties the occipital mass works differently than when reading this text with a cup of coffee.
     
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