Side discussion the TX church shooting/ Mr. Wilson has me thinking about.

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  • SmileDocHill

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    Mr. Wilson had the training, mindset, and ability to do what was needed when evil came around. He's well spoken, not arrogant, dramatic... he represents gun owners very well. The AAR from the media with any event is going to try to spin it the best way they can to serve their needs.
    So, this brings up an introspective exercise. What possible ways could your resume, history, training, or experience be spun to look good or bad. Some things the media can find out you could be very personal and not worth airing out on an INGO thread but it has me thinking.


    Me: I like taking training as financial constraints allow, I've shot in USPSA very occasionally, do 2 gun shooting, prefer rifle events to handgun... I volunteer with Revere's Riders as a trainer but do NOT lump myself in with the caliber of INGO trainers that do it on a professional level. In my mind I'm a student of the gun, constantly trying to eliminate things I didn't know I didn't know. BUT: I never served in the military, no security jobs, I'm a middle aged overweight healthcare professional that plays 'gun guy' stuff when time allows. I'm not from a gun culture family so I'm of course the "gun nut" in the family. I could very easily be painted as a redneck, wannabee. How do you get out in front of that?

    Others have already spoken to needing to do some self assessment on your shooting skills.
    Is there also a benefit to doing a little self assessment on your image, how you would represent gun owners?
     

    Vigilant

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    Probably shouldn’t interview me if I’m in a DGU situation, no filter here. I’ll come off as arrogant, bordering on *******, and 8ll seethe contempt for the media and any Bloomberg ***** that speaks up, as I’m replacing my sure to be taken G19 with one of its brothers. Plus I’m one of those train8ng junkies that goes to classes and sends the family on vacation. I’ve fixated on classes that allow me to shoot at real people with real guns(adapted to UTM of course). The left would LOVE for me to be the poster child of gun owners, but I’ll not give them that.
     

    churchmouse

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    Probably shouldn’t interview me if I’m in a DGU situation, no filter here. I’ll come off as arrogant, bordering on *******, and 8ll seethe contempt for the media and any Bloomberg ***** that speaks up, as I’m replacing my sure to be taken G19 with one of its brothers. Plus I’m one of those train8ng junkies that goes to classes and sends the family on vacation. I’ve fixated on classes that allow me to shoot at real people with real guns(adapted to UTM of course). The left would LOVE for me to be the poster child of gun owners, but I’ll not give them that.

    Never change my brother. Never.
     

    fjw2

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    Had a chance to watch an interview with Mr Wilson recently. It seemed to me that he handled himself admirably. I couldn’t help but remember some thing I read in the member benefits section of the Armed Citizens Defense Network. It said a representative would handle media interactions on your behalf following a self defense event. I believe I would struggle to be as tactful as Mr. Wilson was in the interview session he had.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Mr. Wilson had the training, mindset, and ability to do what was needed when evil came around. He's well spoken, not arrogant, dramatic... he represents gun owners very well. The AAR from the media with any event is going to try to spin it the best way they can to serve their needs.
    So, this brings up an introspective exercise. What possible ways could your resume, history, training, or experience be spun to look good or bad. Some things the media can find out you could be very personal and not worth airing out on an INGO thread but it has me thinking.


    Me: I like taking training as financial constraints allow, I've shot in USPSA very occasionally, do 2 gun shooting, prefer rifle events to handgun... I volunteer with Revere's Riders as a trainer but do NOT lump myself in with the caliber of INGO trainers that do it on a professional level. In my mind I'm a student of the gun, constantly trying to eliminate things I didn't know I didn't know. BUT: I never served in the military, no security jobs, I'm a middle aged overweight healthcare professional that plays 'gun guy' stuff when time allows. I'm not from a gun culture family so I'm of course the "gun nut" in the family. I could very easily be painted as a redneck, wannabee. How do you get out in front of that?

    Others have already spoken to needing to do some self assessment on your shooting skills.
    Is there also a benefit to doing a little self assessment on your image, how you would represent gun owners?

    Thank you for your post. It shows a lot about your character as being a good thing. I could write all day on this but will try to do the short version as I want to go shooting today. First the gun culture is made up of people. People of all kinds of upbringing, history, standards, ethics, financial stability etc. The one trait that is common however is ethnocentricity. Most of us have strong beliefs. Like the Ford vs Chevy thing, people are not going to agree as whole. You can't buy one Chevy out of Millions made and depending on you experience cannot say they are good or bad. Just not a good study. You then, may or may not be a good spokesperson for Chevy but based on little experience. Now in my lifetime of shooting and working people I can tell you how clear it is to me. Take this forum for example, out of Threads 464,409 Posts 8,080, 955 Members 47,619, we get a small percentage of real shooters (Shooters as defined by how much they shoot, think tens of thousands of rounds a year). You can find them under the shooting sports. They are handloading, studying, practicing and competing every weekend, some of us maybe 3 or more matches a week. Yes it is expensive, but earning the money is part of the commitment to becoming the best you can be with a gun. Yes, it is hard work. It is filled with Happiness and disappointment. But the end result is after you are in your top classification, you then can put on ability driven accessories or finite training modules for whatever you choose the reason. Defense, Military, Police, Security, Hunting, Collecting, Retail or just plinking for the rest of your life. The trouble with bypassing this first major step and putting the reason before the means, is a false sense of ability/security. This will bring hate mail, but just because you were in the military, LE, Security or a gunwriter, does NOT make you a shooter. I
    t is the other way around.
    It is good that you shoot in some events but you will need to step it up a little. A shooter can make a good Military, LE, Guard or a Gunwriter with right training in these modules for he has had to have tenacity, perseverance, motivation and a strong sense of commitment. Yes, most GO have it backwards. Think of it like this, do we learn to drive at the 500? I have experimented around here in this forum and filled the threads with controversy to prove this point. Quite simply, if it stings it sings. The shooting sports are also a way to portray the gun in a better light than kill, kill, kill to the media. But kill, kill, kill sells more ads in the media and the shooting sports get no attention on the sports page. We call this a clue as the tail wags the dog. Please do not misunderstand, I practice and train Defensive Courses. I believe in this world today, we need this training more than ever. However, the modules should be ability driven. Owning a guitar, does not make you a musician. To help defray the costs of learning to shoot well, we have some excellent trainers that will help you do that but make no mistake, if you do not do it in an ability driven mode you are just wasting your time and money. Eat the Elephant one bite at a time so to speak. When you are an accomplished shooter and fly by the shooting sports, then most interviews will go cleanly and responsibly for the gun community.

    These are the answers to your questions. Some will not agree. The shooting sports will get you in front of it and your scores will be your self assessment, (along with an awful lot of help from fellow sportsmen).

    Good luck and Good Shooting my friend.
     
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    NyleRN

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    Folks keep missing the poor decisions that were made in that situation that led to 3 people losing their lives. Everyone praises the good shooting by the good guy. Yeah, good shoot bro. But it should've never had to take place with all the red flags you all had. That team had a lack of training in proaction
     

    Trapper Jim

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    Folks keep missing the poor decisions that were made in that situation that led to 3 people losing their lives. Everyone praises the good shooting by the good guy. Yeah, good shoot bro. But it should've never had to take place with all the red flags you all had. That team had a lack of training in proaction

    in a perfect world maybe but no one can see everything all the time. I will not armchair quarterback this one. If we could get just half of the population doing a mediocre job of SA and the courage to do something about it then we all would be better off. Don’t forget, I’m not sure in Texas, but wii mr Wilson have to appear in front of a Grand Jury?
     

    Coach

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    Folks keep missing the poor decisions that were made in that situation that led to 3 people losing their lives. Everyone praises the good shooting by the good guy. Yeah, good shoot bro. But it should've never had to take place with all the red flags you all had. That team had a lack of training in proaction

    Churches are especially vulnerable because the ultimate mission of the church is to be open and welcoming. I agree that they were a little slow to take action with a dude that "was just not right". In my own mind I want to learn from that and not repeat it. I think that is the best possible reaction to what you bring up.
     

    Alamo

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    ...Don’t forget, I’m not sure in Texas, but wii mr Wilson have to appear in front of a Grand Jury?


    Usual IANAL didn’t stay in a Holiday Inn caveats apply.


    AFAIK the DA is only required to present certain criminal cases to the GJ. If the DA sees mo criminal action by Mr. Wilson then ther’s no case to present. I believe some DAs do present self-defense shootings anyway as a form of review and support, especially in controversial cases. But I don’t believe it’s required to present every homicide to a grand jury.

    The only ones that see Mr. Wilson’s actions as controversial are going to be a nut jobs.
     

    NyleRN

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    Churches are especially vulnerable because the ultimate mission of the church is to be open and welcoming. I agree that they were a little slow to take action with a dude that "was just not right". In my own mind I want to learn from that and not repeat it. I think that is the best possible reaction to what you bring up.

    I completely understand the "vulnerability" aspect being how the church is to represent itself. At the end of the day from a security standpoint, we are to ensure to the best of our ability that all who come go home alive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making contact with someone that's a "questionable individual". It's a great intervention that security teams need to use. And I don't mean a shoulder check. A firm handshake with looking them in the eyes while saying welcome and asking if there's something you can help them with. I've done this before and it lets them know they've been noticed. The church is more than likely 501c 3, so it's private property. Your welcome to be there until the leadership says you're not. Discernment is a gift and in these types of situations it's great to have.
     

    Coach

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    I completely understand the "vulnerability" aspect being how the church is to represent itself. At the end of the day from a security standpoint, we are to ensure to the best of our ability that all who come go home alive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making contact with someone that's a "questionable individual". It's a great intervention that security teams need to use. And I don't mean a shoulder check. A firm handshake with looking them in the eyes while saying welcome and asking if there's something you can help them with. I've done this before and it lets them know they've been noticed. The church is more than likely 501c 3, so it's private property. Your welcome to be there until the leadership says you're not. Discernment is a gift and in these types of situations it's great to have.

    I agree cometely.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I completely understand the "vulnerability" aspect being how the church is to represent itself. At the end of the day from a security standpoint, we are to ensure to the best of our ability that all who come go home alive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making contact with someone that's a "questionable individual". It's a great intervention that security teams need to use. And I don't mean a shoulder check. A firm handshake with looking them in the eyes while saying welcome and asking if there's something you can help them with. I've done this before and it lets them know they've been noticed. The church is more than likely 501c 3, so it's private property. Your welcome to be there until the leadership says you're not. Discernment is a gift and in these types of situations it's great to have.

    This is probably the biggest learning point from this entire event. I’m certainly one that could use a LOT more training and practice. I’ve watched that video a number of times and thought about if my skills were good enough to have taken that shot....ehh...no, no way. Addressing the person before he had a chance to pull that gun in the first place, in hind sight, would have been better. (And I’m in absolutely no way criticizing Mr. Wilson’s or anyone else’s actions).
     

    NyleRN

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    This is probably the biggest learning point from this entire event. I’m certainly one that could use a LOT more training and practice. I’ve watched that video a number of times and thought about if my skills were good enough to have taken that shot....ehh...no, no way. Addressing the person before he had a chance to pull that gun in the first place, in hind sight, would have been better. (And I’m in absolutely no way criticizing Mr. Wilson’s or anyone else’s actions).

    I believe every church security team should watch that vid multiple times over WITH the knowledge of the red flags that they had before hand. It would be a wonderful learning tool to teach team members that threat recognition and acting proactively is almost more important than being that "Mr. Wilson" if you will.
     

    Ark

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    My plan is to rep Beretta and KAC in every interview so they send me free stuff and hire me as a brand ambassador. :dunno:
     

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