Join INGunOwners For Free
Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 111
  1. #1
    Plinker Oldgunfan's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    The wrong way to do a citizens arrest [Georgia]

    I looked around and didn't see this news on the forums yet. I'm posting it hear because I'm more interested in the self-defense aspects of this than the politics. (Though I expect in less than 24 hrs it will be all politics...)
    I'm still young in forum-years, so be gentle

    Quite a disturbing video....
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-g...-ahmaud-arbery


    Here's my understanding of the visible facts from the video:
    - a black man is running/jogging down a street, on the left hand side
    - there is a white truck in the right lane, with a man standing in the bed of the truck and another man standing next to the driver-side door, with the door open behind him
    - as the runner nears the truck, he cuts across the road to the right hand side, then the video swings out of frame for a brief moment
    - when the video re-centers, the runner is passing to the front of the truck and the driver has moved around the driver-side door to the front of the truck
    - the first gunshot is heard while the view of the driver and the runner is obstructed in the front of the truck
    - the driver and the runner then are struggling for control of shotgun(?) as they move to the left side of the road
    - two more gunshots are heard during the struggle (I can't if they were all from the shotgun)
    - struggle ends, runner stumbles and dies

    From the article, my understanding is the truck guys suspected that the runner was responsible for a string of burglaries and were attempting to make a citizen's arrest. Of course, this got me to look up the laws in Georgia governing citizens arrest. Here they are:

    "O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
    17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
    A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

    I'm not a lawyer, nor familiar with Georgia law, but from the way I read this a citizens arrest is only legal in Georgia if a) the criminal is caught in the act or b) the criminal is caught attempting to flee. It doesn't appear to address the use of force in such an arrest.

    Now to my opinion: I think the truck guys got it wrong. Even if they in fact had correctly identified the criminal, they didn't a) catch him in the act of burglary, nor b) did they catch him attempting to escape following a felony, so I don't think under Georgia law they have grounds for a citizens arrest. Further--and perhaps more importantly--I believe that their use of force was unlawful. Even if they only fired the first shot after the struggle for the firearm put them in a situation where they had a reasonable expectation of danger to themselves, the fact that the driver moved around to the front of the car to confront the runner, while the runner obviously went around the right side to avoid the driver I think would negate any claim to self defense on the driver's part.

    This got me to look up the Indiana law's for a citizen's arrest and I found this nice article that explains it.
    So in Indiana, the laws are a lot more detailed regarding citizens arrest--including addressing the use of force--and I would highly recommend everyone be familiar with them. To be short, if this incident occurred in Indiana, the citizen's arrest may have been legal, but I still don't think the use of force would have been justified.

  2. #2
    Master fullmetaljesus's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Why was someone filming? Were they part of the ambush?

    I suspect these guys will get a hefty prison sentence.
    With a little luck they will get life.

  3. #3
    Plinker Notropis's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    So many questions here.
    Silly to talk much about it because we have next to no answers.
    I'm always skeptical of the media and one question is easily answered.
    The dead guy is just a jogger. If so, he either lives in the neighborhood or within a close distance.
    If yes, bubbas in the truck have some splaining to do. If not, we are already being spun. Now I believe people should be able to jog in any ole neighborhood but safety varies by neighborhood.
    I do know one thing for sure - If I have a shotgun pointed at me (for right or for wrong) I have mere seconds to dominate that weapon or I need to comply. Guy in the back of the truck makes for low odds on domination and once I engage in an attempt to disarm, I have now given the shotgun wielder THE reason to shoot me. Half hearty attempt to disarm in this case was a really bad decision.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    What I saw, he tries to run around the left side of the truck and is confronted with a rifle. He goes around the right side and is confronted with a rifle. He gets in a struggle with the man aiming the rifle at him. The man in the truck bed shoots him.

    It would have been a good shoot if the guy in the truck bed shot the man with the rifle, although not necessary because the victim would have gotten the upper hand.

  5. #5
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Why was someone filming?
    Burglary victim?

  6. #6
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    within his immediate knowledge
    Maybe they knew?

    If so, could they hold him by force with a gun? That's important, because he was shot struggling for the gun.

  7. #7
    Blue-ID Mafia Consigliere KellyinAvon's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    A lot of unknowns, probably unknown unknowns too.
    INGOer #25,448

  8. #8
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgunfan View Post
    So in Indiana, the laws are a lot more detailed regarding citizens arrest--including addressing the use of force--and I would highly recommend everyone be familiar with them. To be short, if this incident occurred in Indiana, the citizen's arrest may have been legal, but I still don't think the use of force would have been justified.
    Going strictly on the media account from the linked article, it would not be. An arrest requires probable cause, no matter who is doing the arresting.

    Matching the description alone isn't probable cause, it's reasonable suspicion at best.

    Law enforcement can detain on reasonable suspicion, but there is no "Citizen's Detain" equivalent. In real world terms, police can stop you to further the investigation and can then make an arrest or release you. Non-police need to be able to make an arrest based on what they know right then with no further investigation. You can't arrest based solely on "in the area and matched the description".
    L'otters are not afraid.

  9. #9
    Expert DadSmith's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    Why were they engaging him just follow call 911 let a real officer come check it out. If the jury finds them guilty so be it. That was foolish of them.
    Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

    User Info Menu

    But, but, cowboys.


Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Button Dodge