Are You Going to Jail?

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  • GuyRelford

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Aug 30, 2009
    2,542
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    Zionsville
    I've had a few requests, here's my next "legal scenario."

    You're entering a local tavern when you see a large sign on the front door that says the following:

    "ABSOLUTELY NO FIREARMS!!
    ANYONE CARRYING A FIREARM IS EXPRESSLY DENIED ENTRY TO THESE PREMISES.
    IF YOU CARRY A GUN INTO THIS BUILDING YOU ARE SUBJECT TO IMMEDIATE ARREST AND PROSECUTION."

    You have your License to Carry Handgun, so you ignore the sign and enter the tavern. You have several beers at the bar.

    As you stand up to go to the bathroom, your untucked shirt rides up on your hip and a waitress notices your Glock M30 .45 in your IWB holster.

    She reports you to the owner.

    No one says anything to you - the owner just call the cops.

    A police officer arrives, waits for back-up, then enters the bar and confronts you. He takes possession of your Glock. He asks to see your LTCH.

    Then he asks you if you've been drinking.

    You show him your LTCH, and tell him the truth - you've had several beers.

    Are you going to jail?
     

    lawrra

    Master
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    5   0   0
    Mar 28, 2009
    4,339
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    Huntington
    Disregarding the sign could be construed as trespassing. We can lawfully carry into a bar in Indiana, and drink (not always the best decision).

    I'd have to say no, you would not go to jail. The individual was never given the chance to leave on his own. A short discussion with the officers and he would be on his way (after a sober driver picked him up).
     

    jrich2125

    Plinker
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    1   0   0
    Dec 31, 2008
    52
    6
    Atlanta, IN
    I would have to say yes. As it was posted on private property no firearms. If the owner called the cops he obviously is going to follow through on the charges.
     

    INGunGuy

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Dec 1, 2008
    1,262
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    Jeffersonville, Indiana
    Since Indiana Code is silent on the carrying of a firearm into a bar room or resturant that serves alcohol, and Indiana also has no laws about signage forbidding guns, then no you would NOT be arrested. If an officer were called, and you were asked to leave and you DIDNT leave, then you could be arrested for trespass.

    The only IC that I can find that deals with intoxicated persons and weapons is:

    IC 35-47-4-1
    Delivery of deadly weapon to intoxicated person
    Sec. 1. A person who sells, barters, gives, or delivers any deadly weapon to any person at the time in a state of intoxication, knowing him to be in a state of intoxication, or to any person who is in the habit of becoming intoxicated, and knowing him to be a person who is in the habit of becoming intoxicated, commits a Class B misdemeanor.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

    Since a person is not considered legally intoxicated in Indiana until they are a .08 BAC then the person would be in the clear. And since this deals with the delivery of a weapon to an intoxicated person, and not about a person carrying a gun while intoxicated, then again, I dont think this IC would apply.

    INGunGuy
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Nov 2, 2008
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    If he saw the sign, he should be.

    If he claims he didn't walk past the sign and it's possible, he shouldn't be.
     

    6birds

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Jul 15, 2008
    2,291
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    Fishers
    Two quick questions.
    What is the waitress wearing?
    Was I drinking with SE?

    Sorry, I kid, I kid!

    You may be taken in, but not processed or jailed. Bad situation either way, I'll keep an eye for the answer on this one.
     

    newbie

    Plinker
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    2   0   0
    Mar 31, 2009
    111
    18
    In the end it would be up to the owner. IMO if you "need" to carry into said bar. Get a small ankle setup.
     

    INGunGuy

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Dec 1, 2008
    1,262
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    Jeffersonville, Indiana
    If he saw the sign, he should be.

    If he claims he didn't walk past the sign and it's possible, he shouldn't be.



    Jack,

    Why should a person be jailed for seeing or not seeing a sign forbidding firearms since there is no Indiana Code expressly forbidding the carrying in a bar room or resturant that serves alcohol. Should a person be arrested for attempted DWI just because they are in a bar and have the ability to drive DWI?

    INGunGuy
     

    rmcrob

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Sep 18, 2008
    2,230
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    Plainfield
    You aren't going to jail unless there is more to the story. Well, you might go to jail, but you shouldn't. You could be asked to leave, however. If the LEO is up on his law, he probably won't even show up.
     

    SMiller

    Master
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    7   0   0
    Jan 15, 2009
    3,813
    48
    Hamilton Co.
    The owner or police must ask you to leave, they might tell you to not return but there is nothing they can do, it isn't a government owned building, the sign means nothing! Carry everywhere but where there are metal detectors!
     

    INGunGuy

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Dec 1, 2008
    1,262
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    Jeffersonville, Indiana
    WOW, am I the first person to see this... my guess is yes, you could be arrest for being drunk in public. It has nothing to do with the firearm.

    RNM,

    Well the question stated nothing about the person being drunk, only that they had a few drinks at the bar. Since none of that information is given, that one must assume that the person is NOT drunk or at least would blow a .08 BAC to be legally drunk. You have committed no infraction, or broken any law by carrying into a bar, and having a few drinks. The person who is doing the drinking better ensure they do not get to the .08 BAC or they could be arrested for public intoxication, but still no IC that I can find deals specifically with carrying while intoxicated. As I stated before IC 35-47-4-1
    Delivery of deadly weapon to intoxicated person

    Deals with delivery or a weapon to an intoxicated person.

    BUT, with the information given, then NO, the person would not be arrested since they have not broken a law...

    INGunGuy
     

    techres

    Grandmaster
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    27   0   0
    Mar 14, 2008
    6,479
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    If you act within the law during the conversation with the LEO, I see no reason you should go to jail - legally or morally. A sign does not make law, it merely informs of the owner's opinions on what he wants on his land.

    Does the owner have the right to ask you to leave? Yes.
    Does the owner have the right to create a felony or misdemeanor that otherwise does not exist in law? No.

    Property rights do not create law.
     

    Disposable Heart

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 99.6%
    246   1   1
    Apr 18, 2008
    5,805
    99
    Greenfield, IN
    If you act within the law during the conversation with the LEO, I see no reason you should go to jail - legally or morally. A sign does not make law, it merely informs of the owner's opinions on what he wants on his land.

    Does the owner have the right to ask you to leave? Yes.
    Does the owner have the right to create a felony or misdemeanor that otherwise does not exist in law? No.

    Property rights do not create law.

    That's my thinking path:

    If the owner is a dick (going on second hand info from a waitress on top of being a jerk for not allowing firearms), he would scream and yell about trespass. However, no opportunity was made to ask you to leave. They simply called the cops. I have a feeling that if you said they didn't ask me anything, they just called you guys (the cops), the cops would probably tell the owner to stop being a jerk, but may ask you to leave/put the gun in the car/etc...

    The fear of prison is here, but the actuality, I don't think one is going to jail.
     

    Scutter01

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    Mar 21, 2008
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    The IC for Trespass is IC 35-43-2-2. I think the question is whether the sign constitutes "denial of entry".

    IC 35-43-2-2
    Criminal trespass; denial of entry; permission to enter; exceptions
    Sec. 2. (a) A person who:
    (1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;


    STUFF SNIPPED


    (b) A person has been denied entry under subdivision (a)(1) of this section when the person has been denied entry by means of:
    (1) personal communication, oral or written;
    (2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public; or
     

    Kirk Freeman

    Grandmaster
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    8   0   0
    Mar 9, 2008
    47,969
    113
    Lafayette, Indiana
    Maybe, it depends.

    You could go for Criminal Trespass and Public Intoxication.

    Or, the cops could tell you to hit the road (or call you a cab) after they give you a trespass warning.

    Have never seen this situation prosecuted though but we don't have many signs, if any, up here.
     

    INGunGuy

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Dec 1, 2008
    1,262
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    Jeffersonville, Indiana
    The IC for Trespass is IC 35-43-2-2. I think the question is whether the sign constitutes "denial of entry".

    IC 35-43-2-2
    Criminal trespass; denial of entry; permission to enter; exceptions
    Sec. 2. (a) A person who:
    (1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;


    STUFF SNIPPED


    (b) A person has been denied entry under subdivision (a)(1) of this section when the person has been denied entry by means of:
    (1) personal communication, oral or written;
    (2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public; or


    Scutter,

    IC 35-43-2-2 states that the person has been denied entry, so if the person's name was on a sign forbidding entry, then yes, they would be trespassing, but just coming onto the property with a handgun would not be a trespassing offense.

    INGunGuy
     
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