Transporting SBR lower

[Amattern]

What im wanting to know is, if I have a SBR lower registered and want to take it out of state is it going to cause me any problems with laws if I change the upper out with a barrel 16" or over while I take it out of indiana? I know to transport a SBR you have to get prior ATF approval to transport between states, but is that only when configured as a SBR?

 

[ryknoll3]

Yes, only when it's configured as an SBR. You can put a 16" upper on it, and as long as you don't have the short upper in your possession on the trip, you can take it across state lines at will without prior approval.

 

[gunselman]

Yes, only when it's configured as an SBR. You can put a 16" upper on it, and as long as you don't have the short upper in your possession on the trip, you can take it across state lines at will without prior approval.

I don't think this is correct. Once it's registered as an SBR the lower is an SBR. You would have to notify the ATF that you are trasnfering a class 3 across state lines.

Here you go.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-20.pdf

That's like saying i have a registered receiver M16 and i can take it wherever i want as long as i have semi-auto trigger parts in it.

In the eye's of the ATF it's a SBR no matter what barrel length. Now it's pretty hard to tell if it's a SBR with a 16". The receiver go's from a Title 1 weapon to a title 2 weapon when it is made into a SBR.

 

[hemicharger]

Curraheguns is the one to ask about this. He will give you an official and definitive answer.

 

[gunselman]

Section 13.8
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-13.pdf

and some light reading.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nat...barreled-rifles-shotguns.html#part-registered

 

[Hop]

If you remove the short barrel and do not have it with you then you do not have an NFA item and can cross State lines without approval.

Here:
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns

 

[gunselman]

If you remove the short barrel and do not have it with you then you do not have an NFA item and can cross State lines without approval.

Here:
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns

Same link as i posted. It says "retains control" if you own it in your home you still retain control.

Corey will have to jump in on this and give his expert opinion.

For me if i have a lower that is engraved and titled as a SBR I would not risk it. If something happens to it then you are out your lower and your tax fee's Vs. just a lower half.

 

[ryknoll3]

I don't think this is correct. Once it's registered as an SBR the lower is an SBR. You would have to notify the ATF that you are trasnfering a class 3 across state lines.

Here you go.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-20.pdf

That's like saying i have a registered receiver M16 and i can take it wherever i want as long as i have semi-auto trigger parts in it.

In the eye's of the ATF it's a SBR no matter what barrel length. Now it's pretty hard to tell if it's a SBR with a 16". The receiver go's from a Title 1 weapon to a title 2 weapon when it is made into a SBR.

You're incorrect in your analogy because the law and the ATF view SBR's and MG's VERY different.

Machine guns are defined in federal statute as:

The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

ATF's view is "Once a machine gun, always a machine gun." Even if you were to demil the gun (such as cutting the rear lug off of an M14, or filling in the sear hole on an M16) the ATF would STILL consider it a machine gun.

The law's definition of an SBR:

(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;

The difference is in the two definitions, the SBR definition does NOT include the receiver, unlike the MG. The gun MUST have a barrel to be an SBR.

The ATF has long held that the receiver itself is NOT the SBR, but it all lies in the completed weapon. That's why they told mfg's that they couldn't sell "stripped registered SBR lowers" as it doesn't meet the definition of an SBR without a barrel.

Here's a quote from the NFA Handbook (found here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf)

"Of all the different firearms defined as NFA weapons, machineguns are the only type where the receiver
of the weapon by itself is an NFA firearm."

Also if you read the last paragraph of this letter, you will see that ATF DOES indeed allow transportation without notification if the SBR/SBS is temporarily removed from the perview of NFA by changing the barrel.

 

[gunselman]

Well **** i stand corrected. My apologies. I think that this is a very silly ruling but they make the rules.

I wonder what happens when you take your SBR receiver across state lines with a 16"+ barrel then put your friends 10" upper on it across state line not in your home state?

This is good to know. Know i can have one less lower than i thought. I can put that money elsewhere

 

[Hop]

From what I've heard it's not that hard to notify ATF. I have buddies taking things to Knob Creek all the time.

gunselman, that's a crazy idea but also makes me go hmm... Why no Mr ATF agent I didn't transport an NFA item across state lines without approval. Yes, Mr ATF agent it IS an SRB right now and here's my stamp. Waddamaddayou?

 

[JTinIN]

Well **** i stand corrected. My apologies. I think that this is a very silly ruling but they make the rules.

I wonder what happens when you take your SBR receiver across state lines with a 16"+ barrel then put your friends 10" upper on it across state line not in your home state?

This is good to know. Know i can have one less lower than i thought. I can put that money elsewhere

With out a 5320.20, you have committed a felony.