Making copy of paperwork

[irishfan]

I did a quick search here but did not exactly see the answer I was looking for. I was wanting to know what others have done to make a copy of their stamp to take with them to the range so that they do not always have to take their original copy out of the safe and risk damage to it? I know I have heard people talk about doing something like this but I have never actually seen what they have done. I'd prefer not to risk losing or getting my original copy damaged always taking them with me.

Thanks

 

[rvb]

1) regular old photo copy... put a copy in an envelope and taped to the inside each of my gun cases (so I don't have to remember to take it when I go to the range)
2) scanned into pdf and loaded on smart phone / tablet.

-rvb

 

[Dog1]

I have made copies that I have reduced and put in the pistol grip of my SBR's. I have also made copies and then ran them through my lamination machine, then put them in a folder in the storage box between the seats of my F150.

I make copies of all of my Forms and my 5320.20's.

 

[Beowulf]

You can got to Kinkos and they can do the color copies and reductions. As soon as I got my two stamps back for my subgun and Costal Gun suppressor, I had Kinko's make me a bunch of color copies, laminate a few full size ones and then make some wallet size reductions, also laminated.

So, I have the originals and paper color copies at home in a safe place. Then I have a full size laminated copy with the gun and with the suppressor, and then wallet sized that I keep on me.

Sure, it's probably over kill, but I figure better safe than sorry. It's not like the police have the authority to even ask for them, since it falls under taxes, which is something the police are generally prohibited from inquiring about without a warrant. But it's not worth the hassle in trying to get my stuff back from some jumped up Barney Fife who decided he was the ultimate arbiter of justice, no matter what the law actually says.

 

[Faine]

I actually just did this on Sunday. I went to FedEx Office and had them make me 4 front back color copies of my forms, reduced in size so that 2 would easily fit on one standard 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper, they trimmed them out for me, then using one 8.5 x 11 lamination sheet I laminated them 2 at a time. Once done they let me use the cutter/trimmer to cut them down with about 1/4" of lamination overhang on each side, giving me 4 perfect, color copies, reduced and laminated. I can keep them in my various cases and have the peace of mind of knowing they're laminated and protected from weather and mishaps. Total cost was about 25usd.

 

[rvb]

It's not like the police have the authority to even ask for them, since it falls under taxes, which is something the police are generally prohibited from inquiring about without a warrant.

I may be wrong on this, not a lawyer, etc... but I view this much like the ltch. carrying a gun is illegal unless you have the ltch, so that gives leo reason to ask for the ltch.
similarly if the title2 item is illegal by state law unless you comply with federal NFA laws, then it at least seems reasonable to show proof it's legal even though the NFA doesn't state local leo have a right to ask to verify paperwork.

IC 35-47-5-8 Version b
Machine gun
Note: This version of section effective 7-1-2014. See also
preceding version of this section, effective until 7-1-2014.
Sec. 8. A person who knowingly or intentionally owns or
possesses a machine gun commits a Level 5 felony.

IC 35-47-5-10
Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not
be construed to apply to any of the following:
...
(7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine
guns under applicable United States statutes.

It seems that SBRs/silencers are not prohibited by IN law as the MGs are, so this wouldn't apply to silencers/SBRs in IN, but other states have laws for silencers/SBRs similar to our MG prohibition/exception for those items...
since all I have are silencers/SBRs, I wouldn't even have need to even carry paperwork with me except for 1) concern over un-informed leo and 2) convenience to have copies of all my forms in the gun case if I go visit family in OH (I keep my yearly 5320.20 copies, too), which does state SBRs/silencers are illegal unless registered according to NFA (actually having >30 round mags makes it a machine gun in OH unless registered in the NFRTR).

-rvb

 

[Beowulf]

I may be wrong on this, not a lawyer, etc... but I view this much like the ltch. carrying a gun is illegal unless you have the ltch, so that gives leo reason to ask for the ltch.
similarly if the title2 item is illegal by state law unless you comply with federal NFA laws, then it at least seems reasonable to show proof it's legal even though the NFA doesn't state local leo have a right to ask to verify paperwork.


It seems that SBRs/silencers are not prohibited by IN law as the MGs are, so this wouldn't apply to silencers/SBRs in IN, but other states have laws for silencers/SBRs similar to our MG prohibition/exception for those items...
since all I have are silencers/SBRs, I wouldn't even have need to even carry paperwork with me except for 1) concern over un-informed leo and 2) convenience to have copies of all my forms in the gun case if I go visit family in OH (I keep my yearly 5320.20 copies, too), which does state SBRs/silencers are illegal unless registered according to NFA (actually having >30 round mags makes it a machine gun in OH unless registered in the NFRTR).

-rvb

The statute basically says that machine guns are illegal, unless you have applied for and received a stamp. It doesn't say you need to carry one or provide proof to law enforcement if they ask. In fact, it isn't even clear legally whether the ATF would even have the legal authority to demand to see your stamped Form 4 (but I wouldn't want to fight that battle).

That being said, unless you really like spending time in court, I don't think it's worth arguing it over with a local police officer. Depending on the court, they could construe the Indiana statute requiring you to affirmatively prove that your gun is legal, rather than the other way around (which is what it should be).

Honestly, if you have the time and money to fight a civil rights battle over the NFA, I'd much rather see it focused on getting rid of the Hughes Amendment or maybe even the NFA in general. Of course, if the NFA was repealed today by magic, Indiana law would still outlaw machine guns and because the NFA had been removed, you wouldn't have any way to get one legally. You'd have to argue that the number 7 clause would nullify the whole thing since there were no applicable United States statutes anymore.

 

[rvb]

The statute basically says that machine guns are illegal, unless you have applied for and received a stamp. It doesn't say you need to carry one or provide proof to law enforcement if they ask. ....

That being said, unless you really like spending time in court,

Thats pretty much my point...

-rvb

 

[ryknoll3]

Since Indiana statute does not prohibit a silencer in any way, I'm curious what the cop's reaction would be if you told him to pound sand if he asked to see paperwork for your cans. He can't do anything to you. I guess he could call the ATF and ask them to send out an agent?

 

[ryknoll3]

The statute basically says that machine guns are illegal, unless you have applied for and received a stamp. It doesn't say you need to carry one or provide proof to law enforcement if they ask. In fact, it isn't even clear legally whether the ATF would even have the legal authority to demand to see your stamped Form 4 (but I wouldn't want to fight that battle).

That being said, unless you really like spending time in court, I don't think it's worth arguing it over with a local police officer. Depending on the court, they could construe the Indiana statute requiring you to affirmatively prove that your gun is legal, rather than the other way around (which is what it should be).

Honestly, if you have the time and money to fight a civil rights battle over the NFA, I'd much rather see it focused on getting rid of the Hughes Amendment or maybe even the NFA in general. Of course, if the NFA was repealed today by magic, Indiana law would still outlaw machine guns and because the NFA had been removed, you wouldn't have any way to get one legally. You'd have to argue that the number 7 clause would nullify the whole thing since there were no applicable United States statutes anymore.

Well, if Hughes was repealed or ruled unconstitutional, wouldn't machine guns still be regulated as normal firearms under the GCA? Wouldn't you then possess them under the "applicable statutes?"

It would just change the statutes that you are possessing them under from 26 USC Chapter 53 to 18 USC Chapter 44.

 

[curraheeguns]

Since Indiana statute does not prohibit a silencer in any way, I'm curious what the cop's reaction would be if you told him to pound sand if he asked to see paperwork for your cans. He can't do anything to you. I guess he could call the ATF and ask them to send out an agent?

I can tell you what would happen if you told an IMPD officer that. You would spend the following couple weeks/months trying to figure out when the property room will release your can since it would be in the bowells of the city county building with a "Hold for ATF" status.

After ATF gets around to clearing it for release, the officer will have to be contacted and will have to sign a release, then you will be required to be fingerprinted and a criminal history check done, then it should be released to you.

Worth it?

 

[hfdcowboy]

Guilty until proven innocent????

 

[hfdcowboy]

Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms | ATF

Question 26. It states the paperwork must be available for the ATF to inspect.

 

[ShootnCut]

I have made copies that I have reduced and put in the pistol grip of my SBR's. I have also made copies and then ran them through my lamination machine, then put them in a folder in the storage box between the seats of my F150.

I make copies of all of my Forms and my 5320.20's.

on making copies. on leaving copies in your vehicle. Do you really want someone who may potentially steal your truck or break into it to have a nice list of your expensive goodies with your name, address and picture?

 

[Dog1]

on making copies. on leaving copies in your vehicle. Do you really want someone who may potentially steal your truck or break into it to have a nice list of your expensive goodies with your name, address and picture?

Not even remotely concerned about theft or breaking into my truck.

 

[ShootnCut]

Not even remotely concerned about theft or breaking into my truck.

Neither was I..........until it happened...........in the one place I thought it was perfectly safe.
Fortunately they were idiots who wanted my stereo, (which they couldn't get) and they left the tools and the Colt .38 alone. I had to replace two windows however.