SBR question

[Johnny C]

So my SBR form 1 has been approved.
My understanding is that the stripped receiver, even though it is yet to be engraved or assembled, is now considered an SBR and has to be locked up. YES?

 

[Rookie]

Yes, it's an SBR, but I'm not sure why it has to be locked up.

 

[T.Lex]

Yes, it's an SBR, but I'm not sure why it has to be locked up.

They tend to multiply if not separated from the herd. Like a bull. But a short barrelled one.

Anyhoo, post-Form-1-approval, but pre-inscription is a kind of gray area. You can probably finish the build for fit and fitment, but should get it branded within a reasonable time.

 

[Johnny C]

Thanks.
Locked up because my daughter is not on the trust...yet.

 

[ssgjason]

I am going to disagree with the guys above.

It is not an SBR until there is a short barrel upper on it. Right now it is still just a receiver. You could sell it as a normal receiver. I believe you have not manufactured an SBR, yet.

There is a letter from the ATF (take it with a grain of salt) but you can transport and move an SBR lower with a 16" upper on it and it is considered a regular rifle in a Title 1 state of existence.

Then for the guys who say that you are supposed to have it engraved...That is a whole new set of arguments

But, I would say keep it in the safe, cause firearms are safer in a safe

 

[avcautoinc]

If you have an approved form 1 on your receiver then you have the legal ability to put on a -16'' barreled upper on it. It is my understanding that if you put a +16'' barreled upper on it, it would still be considered a "short barreled" rifle, and if you file your form 1 on a trust it has to be engraved with your trust info (trust name, city, state). As far as locking it up, only you and whoever else is on the trust can have access/possession of the firearm without you being present (you can't loan it out to a buddy for the day). But IANAL

 

[T.Lex]

This is not legal advice to anyone, anywhere. When going through the process of SBRing my AR lower, I had a few months to sort out some of the issues. There is no clear answer to some of these problems; it is an oily gray area. Here are some thoughts/opinions that are worth about as much as opinions in the GenPolDisc forum.

1) The SBR tax stamp is a permission slip to create a build with the serialized part that includes a constellation of non-serialized parts that would otherwise violate the NFA. There is some magic pixie dust involved, but it doesn't necessarily mean "once and SBR, always and SBR." The "SBRness" of the firearm depends on other parts beyond the serialized part.

2) Some commie states have firearms laws that don't neatly align with federal NFA laws. (Kinda including Indiana.) Generally, if an SBR'd serialized part is taken into one of these states and would be legal if a non-SBR'd serialized part, the SBR'd serialized part would still be legal. If configured as a non-SBR rifle, and would otherwise be legal (for instance, with a 16"+ upper), then its SBRness generally won't make a difference. BUT, if configured as an SBR, then there's the federal travel permit requirement, and local laws (like Indiana) may actually consider an SBR to be a pistol.

3) The engraving requirement doesn't have an explicit deadline. Some resources suggest it only needs to be engraved if it is going to be sold. Other resources suggest it should be done immediately. The best answer is to do the engraving within a reasonably defensible time period after getting the permission slip, but almost certainly before publicly shooting it as an SBR. Anything else has some risks associated with it.

4) Love my SBR. Way fun to shoot.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I am going to disagree with the guys above.

It is not an SBR until there is a short barrel upper on it. Right now it is still just a receiver. You could sell it as a normal receiver. I believe you have not manufactured an SBR, yet.

There is a letter from the ATF (take it with a grain of salt) but you can transport and move an SBR lower with a 16" upper on it and it is considered a regular rifle in a Title 1 state of existence.

Then for the guys who say that you are supposed to have it engraved...That is a whole new set of arguments

But, I would say keep it in the safe, cause firearms are safer in a safe

This ^^^^ among other things.

A registered SBR lower that is "not currently configured as an SBR" is treated as a normal Title I firearm (plain rifle). It is ONLY treated as an SBR WHEN CONFIGURED as one.

Furthermore, prior to making, it is not an SBR. If you file for approval/tax-stamp, get approved, and later (prior to making the Title II firearm) decide you don't want to make it, you can ask for a refund of the tax. That alone should be enough proof that simple existence of the approved form DOES NOT make it a Title II firearm. If it did, ATF would NOT refund your paid tax.

 

[nrgrams]

Quick question along similar lines...

If I were SBR my MPX pistol, but remove the stock and replace it with a brace when I travel across state lines, what would it be considered? A registered SBR or a pistol???? I've been told once it is registered as an SBR, it will always be considered an SBR.

 

[medcoxo]

Quick question along similar lines...

If I were SBR my MPX pistol, but remove the stock and replace it with a brace when I travel across state lines, what would it be considered? A registered SBR or a pistol???? I've been told once it is registered as an SBR, it will always be considered an SBR.

The difference is yours is a pistol, you can change it back to pistol configuration, with no problem. The same if you add a 16 inch barrel- then it is a rifle. Or remove the stock, and add any length barrel- then it is a pistol.
My understanding is once an SBR always an SBR applies to converted rifles. They cannot be converted to a pistol, unless you remove it from the records.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The difference is yours is a pistol, you can change it back to pistol configuration, with no problem. The same if you add a 16 inch barrel- then it is a rifle. Or remove the stock, and add any length barrel- then it is a pistol.
My understanding is once an SBR always an SBR applies to converted rifles. They cannot be converted to a pistol, unless you remove it from the records.

This ^^^
Generally the rule "once a rifle, always a rifle" applies in all cases EXCEPT when a firearm started out as a pistol, and was converted to a SBR. It can then be converted back to a pistol. We can thank Tompson Center for the legal precedent on this with their "multi-gun" kits (not sure what they were actually called), wherein you bought a kit that had long barrels and short barrels and pistol grip and stock; it came configured as a pistol but you could swap to the rifle stock IF you had the long barrel on. IIRC, there was a legal battle and they (TC) won in court.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

I don't think you are correct, the ATF will not give you a refund for a SBR tax stamp.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

This is also incorrect, once you register a pistol as an SBR it will forever be considered a rifle and you give up the ability to take it freely across state lines.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Quick question along similar lines...

If I were SBR my MPX pistol, but remove the stock and replace it with a brace when I travel across state lines, what would it be considered? A registered SBR or a pistol???? I've been told once it is registered as an SBR, it will always be considered an SBR.

Yes, once it is registered as a rifle it is always a rifle and you can no longer freely travel with it across state lines with a letter from the ATF.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

The difference is yours is a pistol, you can change it back to pistol configuration, with no problem. The same if you add a 16 inch barrel- then it is a rifle. Or remove the stock, and add any length barrel- then it is a pistol.
My understanding is once an SBR always an SBR applies to converted rifles. They cannot be converted to a pistol, unless you remove it from the records.

You are wrong and you give terrible legal advice.

 

[ACC]

Wow....Zombie. Zombie. Zombie. Zombie.

 

[T.Lex]

This seems like an odd thread for a runner, but its 2020 still so anything can happen.