Buying first full auto questions.....

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  • CHCRandy

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    If a person wanted to buy a full auto gun, where would you start and what would you look for as a first one with a $7-10K budget, or is that even possible? Should you buy in state? Dealer or individual? How do you know if it is ok for anyone to own it? Seems like a lot of them are dealer/LEO only.....how do you know what is legal to own and what isnt? Just sort of curious. Thanks
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I'm definitely not an expert, but can address a few points.

    You need a "fully transferable" gun, which will be built (and registered) before a certain date in May of 1986 (I don't recall the exact date). Anything after that can't be transferred to you legally. Police departments (but not individual LEOs) and other .gov entities can buy fully auto, and with the correct FFL, you are allowed to have "samples" to show and demonstrate in an effort to make those sales. There are some differences in pre-86 and post-86 samples, but they only apply if you have an FFL and aren't relevant to you as a non-FFL.

    I've no idea what prices are like now, but even 10 years ago M-16s and AKs that were fully transferable were well into the $20k range. Check Gunbroker, that'll give you a good idea of current prices. Go to Machine Guns and search "transferable" and see what fits your budget.
     

    Trigger Time

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    I'm definitely not an expert, but can address a few points.

    You need a "fully transferable" gun, which will be built (and registered) before a certain date in May of 1986 (I don't recall the exact date). Anything after that can't be transferred to you legally. Police departments (but not individual LEOs) and other .gov entities can buy fully auto, and with the correct FFL, you are allowed to have "samples" to show and demonstrate in an effort to make those sales. There are some differences in pre-86 and post-86 samples, but they only apply if you have an FFL and aren't relevant to you as a non-FFL.

    I've no idea what prices are like now, but even 10 years ago M-16s and AKs that were fully transferable were well into the $20k range. Check Gunbroker, that'll give you a good idea of current prices. Go to Machine Guns and search "transferable" and see what fits your budget.

    Within 10 years ago I remember full auto M16's for 15k. Pribably,less than that. I kick myself every day for holding off thinking we'd get them deregulated. Now they are just way too much for me.

    If you have a 10k budget id buy an uzi
     

    CHCRandy

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    What is difference in form 3 and 4?

    Edit: I see difference now. Form 3 dealer to dealer but then changes to Form 4 to go to buyer from dealer?

    Another question......Pre 86 dealer guns are not an option, correct? Normal Joes cant own any dealer samples pre or post.....is that right?
     
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    nra4ever

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    Go for the Uzi. Lots of mags and parts and like everything else they are going up. Ur real close to getting one at 10k. Down from there is a Mac 11/9 and get the lage Max 31 upper.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Within 10 years ago I remember full auto M16's for 15k. Pribably,less than that. I kick myself every day for holding off thinking we'd get them deregulated. Now they are just way too much for me.

    I'm sure you know that market better than me. I was just remembering (or possibly mis-remembering) what I saw at Knob Creek during the machinegun shoot around the 2000-ish time frame.
     

    Trigger Time

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    I'm sure you know that market better than me. I was just remembering (or possibly mis-remembering) what I saw at Knob Creek during the machinegun shoot around the 2000-ish time frame.
    deffinately no expert in that market for sure, I only remember because I had considered buying. Recently I was going to buy a full auto but I didn't find anything that wasn't highway robbery or not specifically something that interested me. For me spending that much money on a gun is a huge expendeture. Has to be exactly shzt i want. Im surr in 5 years ill be like, damn you idiot you should hsve bouggt a mac when they wefe sub 8k. Lol. Whenever you get a larger informed market then the prices go up or don't budge. I wish I had money to **** away lile some of rhese dealer flippers so I could post ads saying cash for machine guns. I think the jackpot would be a family of a deceased relative contacting you either with paperwork or no KNOWN paperwork. If you can trace down that it was once registered properly then I've heard it's worth it.
     
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    DocIndy

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    I bought my M11/9mm for $700 way back when.... I kicked myself then for not buying the transferable Armalite M-16 the seller had. He wanted what he had in it...$1800. At that time the RDIAS was going for $4500 and up.
     

    Bfish

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    I bought my M11/9mm for $700 way back when.... I kicked myself then for not buying the transferable Armalite M-16 the seller had. He wanted what he had in it...$1800. At that time the RDIAS was going for $4500 and up.

    Wow! I might do more than kick myself over that one!
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Another question......Pre 86 dealer guns are not an option, correct? Normal Joes cant own any dealer samples pre or post.....is that right?

    ... with the correct FFL, you are allowed to have "samples" to show and demonstrate in an effort to make those sales. There are some differences in pre-86 and post-86 samples, but they only apply if you have an FFL and aren't relevant to you as a non-FFL.

    Correct. Only dealers can have "samples". The differences in the types of "samples" aren't relevant in your position, both are off limits.
     

    Beowulf

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    Having been through this several times in the last few years, here's a few suggestions:

    With a budget in the $7 to $10k range, I'd honestly recommend buying an M11 9mm if you can find one. Sure they are little sheet metal bullet hoses, but they have the largest amount of aftermarket uppers out there that turn them into much more modern guns (Lage Manufacturing not only has the MAX-11 to make it more reliable, but they are working on an ATF approved 5.56 upper that will let you run it with AR mags, given you the option of both pistol and rifle caliber). M10s in 9mm and .45 are also good choices, but they don't currently have the 5.56 option, unless you find one of the old Alliance Armament SABRE uppers, which are bit rare these days as Alliance is out of business.

    Failing that, if you are more of a historical type of guy, a STEN or Reising can easily be had in that price range. Keep in mind, you'll like need to tinker with them to keep them running well (particularly the Reisings, which are very temperamental). An M2 carbine would also be a good choice. A Stemple also might not be a bad choice as well, especially if you look at some of the BRP options. For about $10k, you should be able to find one of the BRP Stemples that basically are a Thompson (a little fatter in the receiver, but still).

    If you can find an Uzi in that price range, it would also make an excellent first machine gun, but a lot of them are above $10k now. Plus, you don't have much in the way of caliber options. Also, if you are more interested in a rifle caliber gun, you might be able to find a transferable FNC 5.56 or an AC556 (full auto Mini-14) in the $10 range.

    If you can stretch your budget to $15k (I know that's a huge leap), there are still some few M16 registered receivers out there (or Lightning Links, but those you should read up on heavily before buying one) from some of the less desirable manufacturers, like Olympic. If you are focused on a having a machine gun to shoot and enjoy and aren't hung up on the nuances of who made what, like most collectors, the Olympics are perfectly serviceable and almost any issue with them can be corrected by a good smith like M60 Joe. With an M16 lower, you have huge array of options of calibers, including turning it into a belt fed gun.
     

    Beowulf

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    As to where to buy from, personally, I would stick either with a very known out of state dealer (like Reuben Mendiola, Frank Goepfort, etc... you'll pay a premium on price, but at least you know they are the real deal), or someone local that you can actually go meet to examine the gun. Buying local, either from a dealer or an individual, gives you the benefit of making it a one stamp transfer and reducing the time it takes to get significantly. A Form 3 (dealer to dealer) is still taking 3+ months to process, and then you have the Form 4 wait (upwards of a year currently). If it's an out of state gun on a Form 4 (meaning you have to go Form 4 to Form 3 on sending side and then Form 3 to Form 3 transfer to Indiana, and then Form 3 to Form 4 to you), you not only will have to pay at least the $400 for the two stamps, you are possibly looking at 2+ years to get your gun.

    Now, if you buy from an individual in Indiana, I highly recommend you come to an agreement with the seller to have the gun checked into an 07/02 for "repair and cleaning" while the transfer is going through. 99% of the time, everyone you deal with will be completely on the up and up, but honestly for what most 07/02s are likely to charge to put the gun in their safe while the transfer is going through, it's probably worth the piece of mind.

    Of the 3 MGs I have purchased, all 3 have been from individuals in Indiana and the deal was brokered by an 07/02 in 2 of the cases (the third was direct with the individual, another INGOer, and we did have the gun checked into an 07/02 while the transfer was going through).
     

    Leadeye

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    Powder Springs MAC-10 45 ACP. They always work, take cheap grease gun mags, and can't be beat for a close quarters gun. This one with the suppressor was purchased in 1980 for $400. Still works great today even after years of cast lead.:)
     
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