Are the benefits of an NFA trust worth it?

[dieselrealtor]

I was planning to do a trust & get a couple supressors ordered before changes were implemented a couple of years ago however had too much on my plate too late in the game.

Are the benefits of the trust as they stand now worth the cost & legwork?

 

[JonProphet]

Depends, I'd say yes. Becausei just created my trust. I went through Silencer Shop. They have some benefits that may not be offered else where.

 

[Ggreen]

I have no intention of letting anyone else use or have access to my nfa items, while I'm not with them. So I just saw it as an extra step to have to find someone trustworthy that wouldn't get annoyed everytime I went to add a suppressor to the stash. Maybe when I have grown kids I'll regret not going with a trust, but it just seemed like extra money and extra hassle having to get someone else fingerprinted and pictures taken.

 

[Tanfodude]

It is good if you want the rest of your family being able to use it legally.

 

[Ggreen]

It is good if you want the rest of your family being able to use it legally.

But if your family only shoots with you/ if you only let them shoot suppressors and sbrs while you're present it is still completely legal to let them shoot while you're with them.

 

[JonProphet]

You will end up paying $200 for each item that you put into the trust later.

Go to the Silencer Shop. Its $129 to do the trust and takes minutes to get started. Only list yourself at this time as guarantor and trustee. Then find a notary, upload the documents to Silencer shop and you are done. Can take as little as a few hours total to set it up. It's easy to put a wife or child as a trustee later.

The main benefit of going through Silencer Shop is they keep your information digitally for 2 years. You buy from one of their dealers or buy directly from their shop (ship to any Class III) and they transmit all of your info (including any trustees), photo, finger prints, trust info, personal info (of everyone) digitally to the ATF for approval. You can also BUY your stamp ($200) directly from them.

After 2 years, if you buy another NFA item, you simply have to update your passport photo (can be done with your phone with their app) and finger prints (and all trustees) and again, all stuff is transmitted electronically. The really nice thing about Silencer Shop is they distributed Kiosks all over the place to help ease all the documentation process.

If you die all items have to go to a Class III dealer for $200 stamps for each item or they have to be destroyed. Its a lot of money to risk in case something were to happen.

 

[HK Guy]

If you die all items have to go to a Class III dealer for $200 stamps for each item or they have to be destroyed. Its a lot of money to risk in case something were to happen.

Umm no.... They transfer TAX FREE via a form 5 to your heirs.

I just went through the trust / no trust thing. I've got items that I own as an individual and I have items that my trust owns. I'm the grantor, the wife is a trustee and the kid is a beneficiary. Marc Halta did mine and I talked with him prior to my newest NFA transfer and I went ahead and did it on the trust. Big whoop, the wife had to get finger printed and photographed.

My issue as one of the posters noted that there is no way the wife is going to ever shoot a gun, let alone NFA if I'm not around. Where the trust shines is estate planning. The trust stuff goes direct to her when I die for her to do what she wants with them. The individual items would have to go through probate and she would have to deal with the form 5.

 

[Ggreen]

My wife does not shoot, doesn't even like to look or see my guns. The only person I would consider putting on the trust would be my step dad, who has zero desire to shoot suppressed anything. My child still has 4 months of baking to do before it gets a social security number. Instructions with a form 5 will be in our "what if box." I have more than 18 years before I would consider a trust and would only consider immediate family. Not worth the extra money, time, and longer stamp processing to me. I ordered a 100pack of fbi fingerprint cards from the Government Printing Office and get printed for free on my way to my ffl en route to work. I don't have to drive an hour out of my way to find a kiosk and I have the flexibility to order from other places, easily.

There is a time and a place for a trust, my situation is unique to me and everyones situation will be unique to them. I don't see purpose in wasting another 100-200 on a trust when I don't trust anyone else to handle my can without me present.

 

[JonProphet]

Is this the Form 5 you are referring to?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...nsfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53205

They talk about a few things, they do mention NFA, but it looks more confusing then anything. I'll stick with a Trust.

 

[Ggreen]

Is this the Form 5 you are referring to?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...nsfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53205

They talk about a few things, they do mention NFA, but it looks more confusing then anything. I'll stick with a Trust.

Less complicated than explaining to my wife why she has to go get photos and finger printed.

 

[maxmayhem]

my lawyer wrote a trust for me for $500 so if it helps me avoid the transfer tax again it saves me $700 like 40 years from now after I am dead. Not sure its worth it unless the tax changes or some other unknown factor like value increasing to the lack of available of certain items. Who knows? For standard items, I dont think so but for a full auto Colt or similar then I dont really think so in retrospect. You have to wait longer for your toys with a trust too. I waited a year to the day for my first two silencers.

 

[Rookie]

You don't HAVE to put your wife on a trust. The trust gives the advantage of adding/removing people whenever.

I'll be purchasing a few suppressors soon. I'll start a new trust with myself, buy what I want, and add people later.

I already have one trust, but it's not worth the hassle to print nine people (some of them live out of state). The biggest benefit is adding/removing people whenever you want. If you're convinced you'll never do that, don't get a trust. If there's a slight chance, get a trust.

 

[HK Guy]

Ugh, people I'm not trying to be a jerk but a trust doesn't save you any money on transfers when you die. When you die your non trust NFA items transfer to your heirs tax free via a form 5.

 

[CountryBoy19]

To be honest, IMHO, you're a perfect candidate for a trust. It adds very little added complexity (have to get the trust notarized & keep the paperwork somewhere safe). You can add your children later in life. If you decide not to do that, you're only out the cost of the trust. If you DO decide to give your kids access later in life and you did not do a trust then you're out $200 (or $5 for some items) tax for each item you then have to transfer from you to the trust.

Furthermore, a properly written trust can automatically grant access to your kids when they turn 18. And it can serve as important documentation & direction for what to do if you pass away and it will keep the knowledge that you have those items out of the public domain. Like it or not, anything that passes through probate is public information so anybody that wants to look up the records can and will know what NFA items you had and who they went to. If you die with or without a will your assets will pass through probate, a trust will keep them out of probate; a will just makes it faster/easier for them to go through probate. Unlike other assets, if you visit a lawyer in 10 years and they advise you to put your assets in a trust, you cannot just write your NFA items down on the schedule A, you will have to transfer them (and pay the tax) to get them into the trust.

 

[JonProphet]

It appears my information was incorrect on some of the statements for trusts.

What I know is, Trusts are very valuable. Everyone is doing it. Hence why trusts are taking so long to approve NFA items for trusts. It protects my family and my valuables. 41F rule didn't have the negative affect that some may think it did.

 

[uberpeck]

I just went through this process not 2 months ago. Personal situation first: no intention of letting others use the items without my precense, and none in my family are interested. That being said I initially purchased a trust and ended up not using it: reason being the successors and benefactors have to submit two fingerprint cards and two passport photos with the trust along with you, and resubmit every time items are added if you are outside the two year limit since the last addition. Fingerprints are 5$ for two and photos are 15$ for two. 20$ total for each person plus the hassle of getting this coordinated was not worth it to me just to share my items.

Form 5 tax free transfer has to be done either way when you die...I believe

 

[uberpeck]

On a side note, if the wimp Paul Ryan ever brought the SHARE Act up for vote on the floor we wouldn't to be having this talk. Call your reps and senators, cause a similar bill is in the Senate as well.

 

[Ggreen]

I just went through this process not 2 months ago. Personal situation first: no intention of letting others use the items without my precense, and none in my family are interested. That being said I initially purchased a trust and ended up not using it: reason being the successors and benefactors have to submit two fingerprint cards and two passport photos with the trust along with you, and resubmit every time items are added if you are outside the two year limit since the last addition. Fingerprints are 5$ for two and photos are 15$ for two. 20$ total for each person plus the hassle of getting this coordinated was not worth it to me just to share my items.

Form 5 tax free transfer has to be done either way when you die...I believe

Post the rewrite, there is no benefit to people in our situation to have a trust.

 

[NyleRN]

It appears my information was incorrect on some of the statements for trusts.

What I know is, Trusts are very valuable. Everyone is doing it. Hence why trusts are taking so long to approve NFA items for trusts. It protects my family and my valuables. 41F rule didn't have the negative affect that some may think it did.

Trusts being valuable is subjective. I don't think a single NFA trust has been contested in a court of law. So how do we know they'll hold water? Not everyone is going trust. That's an incorrect statement. The reason why there's more trusts is because that was the most popular route to take PRE-41F. Two reasons for this: 1. Much easier to have multiple nfa items with a pool of people to play with them. 2. It was a work around the CLEO sign off which is now gone. Protecting your valuables, maybe some validity to that. And 41f made things a real pain for trust people. That was the idea

 

[Hotrod29]

Short answer, yes a trust has many benefits. To not use a trust is very short sighted.