Explain the suppressor process to a Noob!

[HoosierLife]

So I would like to get a suppressed AR15 for fun and home defense (I have the ability to aim DOWN toward potential break in attackers).

But I have no idea how to even go about getting one. Do I choose the rifle first? The suppressor? The stamp? What is the process from start to finish?

What's the benefit of a SBR over normal length?

Basically can someone explain from start to finish what I need to do, what I need to consider etc?

 

[Ggreen]

Sbr- will weigh less and not be as long once the suppressor is attached, but will require a second 200 Dollar stamp. Another option is to get an integrally suppressed upper, one stamp for the suppressor and the overall length is still long enough not to be an SBR. This also means the suppressor is welded in place.

Pick a rifle, preferably with an adjustable gas block. This allows you to turn down the gas sent to operate the bolt. Suppressors increase pressure.

Once you choose your rifle start looking at what suppressor fits your budget. I went with a 30cal suppressor and a few different muzzle brakes that adapt it to fit 22cal up to 300winmag. There are cheaper ways just using thread adapters.

Once you settle on a suppressor you'll get guided by the vendor. If it's not local you pay the vendor and they transfer it to a local class 3 FFL. Then you will work exclusively with the local ffl. FFL to FFL transfer takes a few days including shipping. You will need passport photos, fingerprints ( local FFL can send you in the right direction), and a check for 200 dollars for the ATF. Then you wait.

If you transfer it at a dealer that has a range you will likely get to use the item while waiting on the stamp, but you can't leave with it.

You can do a trust, but it adds cost, complexity, and doubles the time the background check takes. Individuals are clearing in 5 months at the shop I went through, trusts are at least a year.

 

[STFU]

Suppressors increase pressure.
You can do a trust, but it adds cost, complexity, and doubles the time the background check takes. Individuals are clearing in 5 months at the shop I went through, trusts are at least a year.

These statements are not quite accurate.

While it is true that all suppressors add pressure, some add far less than others. EG: OSS being one and another company just released one as well. You can find videos on OSS on YouTube.
(And yes, they do make a difference. Huge difference. I have four silencers and the one on my Tavor is an OSS.)

It does indeed take a bit longer with a trust but it is certainly not double the length of time. My last silencer was a Form4 Trust that went in just days before 41F hit. It took just under 10 months.
You can actually track this pretty well at this site: http://www.nfatracker.com/nfa-transfer-time-tracking/
What is more interesting is to turn on the results for both F4 Trust and F4 Individual. Looks like many folks have quit doing trusts just because of the post 41F hassles.

 

[HoosierLife]

Seems like everyone likes 300 Blackout with a suppressor. I just have a ton of 5.56 ammo. Any thoughts on 5.56 vs 300?

I do like the idea of the integral suppressed upper either way.

 

[Ggreen]

Seems like everyone likes 300 Blackout with a suppressor. I just have a ton of 5.56 ammo. Any thoughts on 5.56 vs 300?

I do like the idea of the integral suppressed upper either way.

300blk can be as quiet as you will get, but the subsonic rounds lack the punch that the super Sonic rounds carry, but neither the 300 or the 223 are to terribly loud with a suppressor. If I were going integral I'd go 300, purely personal preference

 

[Ggreen]

These statements are not quite accurate.

While it is true that all suppressors add pressure, some add far less than others. EG: OSS being one and another company just released one as well. You can find videos on OSS on YouTube.
(And yes, they do make a difference. Huge difference. I have four silencers and the one on my Tavor is an OSS.)

It does indeed take a bit longer with a trust but it is certainly not double the length of time. My last silencer was a Form4 Trust that went in just days before 41F hit. It took just under 10 months.
You can actually track this pretty well at this site: http://www.nfatracker.com/nfa-transfer-time-tracking/
What is more interesting is to turn on the results for both F4 Trust and F4 Individual. Looks like many folks have quit doing trusts just because of the post 41F hassles.

What is not quite accurate? Suppressors increase pressure on the gas system, fact for 99 percent of the commercially available cans. One brand that only mildly increases pressures still increases pressures and it is wise to be able to adjust the system in any suppressed ar.

I have two stamps currently going through at two different FFL s who do transfers on a daily basis. Both have agreed that trusts are running 10 to 14 months, and nfa tracker agrees except a couple trusts that cleared quickly. I'll go with knowledge from the FFLs handling transfers. So again what is inaccurate about saying trusts are clearing in almost a year?

 

[STFU]

What is not quite accurate? Suppressors increase pressure on the gas system, fact for 99 percent of the commercially available cans. One brand that only mildly increases pressures still increases pressures and it is wise to be able to adjust the system in any suppressed ar.

I have two stamps currently going through at two different FFL s who do transfers on a daily basis. Both have agreed that trusts are running 10 to 14 months, and nfa tracker agrees except a couple trusts that cleared quickly. I'll go with knowledge from the FFLs handling transfers. So again what is inaccurate about saying trusts are clearing in almost a year?

Take it down a notch. You sound like you want to pick a fight?
1) I VERY clearly stated in my post "While it is true that all suppressors add pressure, some add far less than others." What is not clear about that? Did you even read what was written?

2) SO WHAT? I really don't care how many stamps you have in process. I have four stamps that have already been approved and 3 were completed by a dealers that do many submissions too.
(Are you going to claim your dad can beat up my dad next?)
I was speaking strictly from what I know as FACT, from my own experience including submissions well before and right up to the 41F cutoff. Your opinion is just that: YOUR OPINION. Your opinion does not make it factual.

We are all aware that transfer times vary greatly. Period. The point is that using a trust versus individual is only a 3 month difference, not 6 months. 6 months (individual) vs 9 months (trust). And yes, while the trust does take 50% longer (not 100% longer), statistically speaking, 6 months or 9 months is well under a year in either case.
NFA tracker may not be perfect but it has over 30,000 entries and people update it daily. You can ignore the data if want, but it is there. Look at the current trends!
Sorry someone pissed on your Wheaties today. Wasn't me.

 

[HoosierLife]

I assume the benefit of the trust is to be able to pass it down after death?

How difficult is it to add the trust after the fact? My son is 2. Not in a rush.

 

[Ggreen]

I assume the benefit of the trust is to be able to pass it down after death?

How difficult is it to add the trust after the fact? My son is 2. Not in a rush.

They still pass down tax free after death without a trust. A trust allows you to let others have possession of the nfa item without you being present.

 

[DanVoils]

I assume the benefit of the trust is to be able to pass it down after death?

How difficult is it to add the trust after the fact? My son is 2. Not in a rush.

It's easily done but requires another $200 tax stamp.

 

[roscott]

A trust used to exempt you from the fingerprinting requirement, so that used to be the way to go. Now, the only advantage of a trust is that it essentially allows multiple people to "own" the NFA item. My dad and I share a trust, because we like to be able to both use our NFA stuff separately if we desire. Additionally, you have to fingerprint everyone on the trust when you set it up. I'm not sure how that would work with a toddler.

An SBR is very nice when running suppressed. Imagine a regular 16" AR15. Plus 8 inches for the can. Suddenly you have a 24" barrel that is VERY front heavy, even with lightweight titanium suppressors. Not a very friendly room clearing gun, if that's what you need. However, while not nearly as cool, an AR pistol with a Sig brace will solve that problem for you, and bypasses the NFA regulations.

If you buy the AR first, don't buy a 16" 5.56 with a carbine gas length barrel! The suppressor will overpressure the system, not enough to be dangerous, but enough to cause that gas blowback to spit out the ejection port. It gets in your eyes and is generally no fun. (Although maybe some suppressors don't cause back pressure? You'd have to ask the posters upthread.) A mid-length gas system is a better option for a 16" barrel, or carbine length for shorter, or pistol length for really short barrels. But if you get much below 12" you'll need to run soft point ammo because you won't have enough velocity to make 5.56 round tumble. But that's getting a little complicated now.

One final note: 5.56 doesn't suppress very well IMO. The round travels at such high velocity and have such a sharp sonic crack that they still sound painfully loud even suppressed, especially indoors. Ouch. I much prefer 300 Blackout for suppressed use, and you don't have any drawbacks to shorter barrels. 300 BLK reaches almost max velocity in around 9" of barrel, I think?

So if we are voting, I vote for a AR pistol in 300 Blackout with a 7-10" barrel. Would make for a very handy home defense rifle. And you can even hunt with it! That's what I built mine for.

 

[HoosierLife]

They still pass down tax free after death without a trust. A trust allows you to let others have possession of the nfa item without you being present.

Oh so my friends can shoot it too?

 

[JonProphet]

Anyone can shoot your NFA items as long as you are present when these things happen.

 

[STFU]

Oh so my friends can shoot it too?

NFA Myths
See this section about 1/2 way down the page: I can let my friends and family use and possess my individually-owned NFA firearms in my presence.

In short, most likely there will be no problem, but...nothing seems to be guaranteed with the BATFE. YMMV.

 

[STFU]

This is the other baffle-less suppressor I was thinking of:
https://www.ng2defense.com/products/maxflo-3d-afd-suppressor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWak947uAmc

I cannot vouch for this brand as I do not own one, but they appear to be the same principle as what OSS does, albeit at a slightly higher price than OSS.

 

[HoosierLife]

A trust used to exempt you from the fingerprinting requirement, so that used to be the way to go. Now, the only advantage of a trust is that it essentially allows multiple people to "own" the NFA item. My dad and I share a trust, because we like to be able to both use our NFA stuff separately if we desire. Additionally, you have to fingerprint everyone on the trust when you set it up. I'm not sure how that would work with a toddler.

An SBR is very nice when running suppressed. Imagine a regular 16" AR15. Plus 8 inches for the can. Suddenly you have a 24" barrel that is VERY front heavy, even with lightweight titanium suppressors. Not a very friendly room clearing gun, if that's what you need. However, while not nearly as cool, an AR pistol with a Sig brace will solve that problem for you, and bypasses the NFA regulations.

If you buy the AR first, don't buy a 16" 5.56 with a carbine gas length barrel! The suppressor will overpressure the system, not enough to be dangerous, but enough to cause that gas blowback to spit out the ejection port. It gets in your eyes and is generally no fun. (Although maybe some suppressors don't cause back pressure? You'd have to ask the posters upthread.) A mid-length gas system is a better option for a 16" barrel, or carbine length for shorter, or pistol length for really short barrels. But if you get much below 12" you'll need to run soft point ammo because you won't have enough velocity to make 5.56 round tumble. But that's getting a little complicated now.

One final note: 5.56 doesn't suppress very well IMO. The round travels at such high velocity and have such a sharp sonic crack that they still sound painfully loud even suppressed, especially indoors. Ouch. I much prefer 300 Blackout for suppressed use, and you don't have any drawbacks to shorter barrels. 300 BLK reaches almost max velocity in around 9" of barrel, I think?

So if we are voting, I vote for a AR pistol in 300 Blackout with a 7-10" barrel. Would make for a very handy home defense rifle. And you can even hunt with it! That's what I built mine for.

Very helpful!

What are your thoughts on the integrally suppressed uppers? Seems to be a good way to get around length issues and still have a full length barrel and a normal stock.

I am definitely leaning toward 300 blk. Seems much quieter and more multi-purpose. I just have thousands and thousands of round of 5.56. Just one more type of round to stock up on.

 

[roscott]

Integrally suppressed barrels are great, if that is the only weapon you intend to use the suppressor on. I like my .30 cal suppressor because it can run on a couple different 300 blackout rifles, my 308 precision gun, and even my 30-06 hunting rifles if I so desire.

 

[maxmayhem]

556 is not as quiet as 300 blackout. People like 300 blackout because it is slower and heavier. This translates to more quiet--especially with subsonic loads. I have 6 5.56/.223 rifles and a silencerco hybrid and I have never even bothered suppressing 5.56/.223. I do have a yhm can in "jail" waiting for a stamp that will be a dedicated can for 5.56. I have found that a short barrel 5.56 is very obnoxious to shoot at the range for me and others around me. I think the suppressor will help.
For your first supporessor, I recommend a 30 cal suppressor or a hybrid like I got. Hybrid does anything from 223 to 458 socom but be prepared to spend some money on adapters. With what I know now I would just say to you: get a 22 cal suppressor for rimfire and then get a good 30 cal suppressor. I got the hybrid because I can run it on a pistol or rifle since the 30 cal wont work for 9mm.

I have 5 stamps (2 stamps are for short barrel rifles for a cz scorpion and 1 ar lower, another stamp for a silencerco hybrid, another stamp for a 22 suppressor called a warlock II, and another for a silencerco octane 9)

I am currently waiting for two stamps for the yhm phantom and thompson machine wasp.

The process is pretty simple and I am not talking about building your own legal suppressor (don't ask me about that as I have no idea).

I went to a shop and bought two suppressors. I paid for them wtih sales tax and provided a check for the ATF for $200.
The shop sent the paperwork off to the ATF and I waited a year to get the paperwork back.
I waited longer because I had a trust which I would recommend if you are getting multiple items.
The stamps from the ATF will go to the shop and the shop will call you. You go in and do a background check just like you are buying a rifle.
If you pass the background check you get to take the silencer home.


If you are just getting 1 suppressor I would say screw the trust in retrospect. The trust allows you to transfer the item to and between members legally (and more easily) for use and upon the event of your death. Silencerco has trust you can buy from them that my lawyer said was legal but i had some shortcomings. My lawyer prepared a trust for me for a substantial fee. The trust is not necessary to own a gun but it has some advantages. I will not offer advice on that since I dont have a full understanding of it.

If you do not use a trust your wait time will be substantially less I am told.
If you are going to get a stamp to make a gun a short barrel rifle then you can do the paperwork yourself (which I dont recommend).
I paid a shop $50 to do the paperwork for my scorpion and CZ. I sent the paperwork off and got the stamps back in six months+/-. Those stamps came directly to me because I already owned the lower and the scorpion.


If you buy a suppressor online from silencer shop (for example) then they transfer the suppressor to your dealer. the two entities complete some paperwork to transfer between themselves which takes a short amount of time. After this is complete then you can start the process to buy it. Or at least, thats how it works for me.

So in summary its easy:
1) Pay for the silencer, sales tax, and a check for $200
2) The shop sends off your paperwork and stamp
3) You wait for 6 months to a year to get your stamp from ATF
4) Complete a background check after your stamp comes back
5) Pass the background check and get your stamp and silencer
6) Go to shooting range and Pew pew pew


I left out a step before #6 : Take out a credit card to pay for adapters and ammo

Seems like everyone likes 300 Blackout with a suppressor. I just have a ton of 5.56 ammo. Any thoughts on 5.56 vs 300?

I do like the idea of the integral suppressed upper either way.

 

[maxmayhem]

Very helpful!

What are your thoughts on the integrally suppressed uppers? Seems to be a good way to get around length issues and still have a full length barrel and a normal stock.

I am definitely leaning toward 300 blk. Seems much quieter and more multi-purpose. I just have thousands and thousands of round of 5.56. Just one more type of round to stock up on.

I would steer away from suppressed uppers myself. It doesnt give you the versatility you can get out of a removable can. That is my opinion but there are some cool options out there for some 22 suppressors.
22 has become my favorite round to suppress. I can shoot standard velocity out of a rifle and it is very quiet. That has a lot of practical uses. I shoot it out of a sig 522 and a walther p22. It makes 22 a lot of fine. 300 blackout is the most fun but it is EXPENSIVE!!!

 

[maxmayhem]

anyone can shoot it with you present but only trust member can possess it...in other words, you cant let someone borrow it unless you are present.
One poster above pointed out that this may not be correct in his link. I personally think this is boogey man rubbish since when I walk down range to change my target I am not in possesion of it.This is the same as going to the restroom then I technically don't have possession by this restroom interpretation. Furthermore, I cannot possess my firearm by this interpretation without breaking the range rules. I believe the correct interpretation is that I cannot loan my NFA item to another unauthorized trust member to go to the range alone with it, loan it to hunt with it, or for any purpose, or otherwise transfer control or ownership to another unauthorized person, etc,. If I am reasonably and responsibly in control of the firearm and present then I am following the law.:

I can let my friends and family use and possess my individually-owned NFA firearms in my presence.MIXED VERACITY. This statement is not technically false, but it is not true either. There is no legal support for this belief. At this point in time, the ATF unofficially appears to be permitting this type of behavior, however, there is no statute or regulation that specifically permits it. As such, the ATF’s tolerance of this practice could change in a split second and offenders could be arrested, prosecuted, and have no legal leg to stand on. As discussed above, it is illegal for anyone to possess an NFA firearm that is not registered to them. Just as a person can be arrested for illegally possessing marijuana by holding it in their hand, a person illegally possesses an NFA firearm by holding it in their hand if they are not the registered owner. Furthermore, such possession could be considered to be a loan and would thus be illegal under that analysis as well. Much depends on how the term “loan” is legally defined by a court. See myth 6 above. As of now, I cannot find any definition by a court in this context. However, Merriam-Webster’s dictionary defines the word loan as “permission to use something for a period of time,” or “something lent usually for the borrower’s temporary use.” Either definition could clearly include the practice of allowing friends and family to use and possess individually-owned NFA firearms, even in the owner’s presence. This problem is exacerbated if the individual owner happens to be out of eyesight of the NFA firearms, even for a short time (say to use the restroom while at the range), and leaves the firearms in the care of others. It certainly can be argued that the owner did not have control or possession of the firearms and thus had transferred control to someone else at that point. Thus, if allowing friends and family to use and possess individually-owned NFA firearms could be considered a “loan,” and it easily could, such a loan is a transfer and is illegal without ATF permission. Again, the practice of permitting friends and family to use individually-owned NFA firearms in the owner’s presence appears to be tolerated by the ATF at the current time, however, there is no guarantee that such tolerance will continue in the future. That makes it a very risky proposition. This problem and risk can be eliminated by owning NFA firearms in a well-drafted gun trust.

Oh so my friends can shoot it too?