Sale of SBR between Trustees?

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  • HMMurdock

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    Greenwood aka G-Wood
    Question: If one member of a gun trust (who happens to be the Settlor, if that makes any difference), wants to sell a short barreled rifle that is already ATF approved and legally on their gun trust to another member of the trust (successor-trustee, if that makes any difference), what paperwork needs to take place for the permanent storage of said short barreled rifle from the primary address of the trust to change to the new owner/fellow trust member?

    I don't know if that makes sense or not? Any help/advice would be appreciated.
     

    Goodcat

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    IANAL.

    If they are a successor, I believe you simply need to rewrite the trust to add them as a trustee, now all parties on the trust own it. Or rewrite them as the trustee and you as the successor. I’m not sure if you need to resubmit trust to ATF for changes.
     

    HMMurdock

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    I understand the Trust only marginally. The way it is written, everyone on it is a Trustee? And the Settlor would still be maintaining primary ownership of the several other items on the trust. Wouldn’t rewriting the Trust only confuse that?

    Now I am confusing myself! Thanks again for any input
     

    Goodcat

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    I understand the Trust only marginally. The way it is written, everyone on it is a Trustee? And the Settlor would still be maintaining primary ownership of the several other items on the trust. Wouldn’t rewriting the Trust only confuse that?

    Now I am confusing myself! Thanks again for any input

    i reiterate, IANAL. As far as I understand it, a successor is not a trustee, they become one in the event. Trustees listed are all equal part owners, because no one owns the NFA item, it is owned by the legally entity “the trust”, instead of by a person. So if 6 people were trustees, two of them opt out of the trust, now 4 remain. The whole while, the trust owns the NFA Gear. Only those 4 now may possess the NFA items owned by the trust. Imagine the trust as a person itself, owning NFA items, thereby “legal entity”. The trustees are who control the trust.
     

    Goodcat

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    A trust is not held by a governing body as its final place, it is a changing and morphing document. So you should have papers to add or remove individuals, add items, remove items. You could transfer your dog into the trust as an item owned. Most trusts start their life with $1.00 as the first item owned, because they have to start with something. A trust is a breathing document that YOU keep ownership of.
     

    HMMurdock

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    Thank you, sir! To make a little more sense of my confusion... Ladies and Gentlemen, the story you are about to hear is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent:

    The Trust reads:

    "Identifiable persons in this Trust, as originally written are:

    Settlor: Moe

    Co-Trustees: Moe, Larry & Curly.

    Successor Trustee: Larry

    Beneficiary(ies): Curly."

    So if Larry wanted to buy an SBR that is on their mutual trust from Moe and keep it at his house, what would need to take place?

    Thanks again. I see what you mean about successor vs co-trustee. In this case, this person is a co-trustee, just also Successor and not the Settlor (This is outside of my Legalese language). Sorry and thank you for clarifying!
     
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    Goodcat

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    If the person is a co-trustee, then you both already own any items owned by the trust and nothing needs to happen.
     

    lordjackel

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    "Identifiable persons in this Trust, as originally written are:

    Settlor: Moe

    Co-Trustees: Moe, Larry & Curly.

    Successor Trustee: Larry

    Beneficiary(ies): Curly."

    First I am no lawyer...but from my understanding (and reading my trust) I think whoever wrote yours just created unnecessary structure. Basically since "Moe, Larry and Curly" are all Co-Trustees they already "own" the trust therefore in anyone of them dies or leaves the trust the remaining members are still owners (and nothing changes). Meaning Successor and Beneficiaries are not needed among the same members (redundant). You could add your son "Junior" as a Successor/Beneficiary in the event all trustees die/leave trust then he would take over (but only in that case).

    In short - Settlor, Successor and Beneficiary designations and not needed in the above reference. (this is based on an NFA trust...if your trust is more encompassing - like having actual land property as well then maybe they are needed for different reasons)

    Now to the original question. If you want to physically move the NFA item from one permanent location to another (Trust still owns it) then you simply need to submit an ATF Form 5320.20 (change of address).
     
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