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  • Gabriel

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Jun 3, 2010
    6,713
    113
    The shore of wonderful Lake Michigan
    I am going to make this it's own thread. The more I think about this, the more angry get. The angrier I get, the more I want people to know.

    I bought a can from them through Silencer Shop last October. I got a call Tuesday (actually, I got it on the 30th, but it got lost in all the political callers leaving me annoying messages) that the stamp was in and I could just go get it.

    It's a 30 minute drive over there. When I get there, the guy behind the counter asks me to fill out a 4473 so he can transfer me the can. I did despite wondering why I would need to after the ATF background check. The background check was delayed. I left without the can.

    I posted this in another thread and was told that a background check is not required when picking up a can because the ATF already did it. I looked and, sure enough, form 4473 box 20 clearly states such.

    I called Copper Custom to inquire about this. I was told that it is store policy to do another background check before letting an NFA item out the door. The reasoning was there was a time between when the NFA check was done and when the person comes to pick it up that the person could have committed a felony and be out on bond. That is their exact words.

    So, I'm stuck waiting for a background to clear that wasn't needed to begin with, so I can waste another hour driving over there to get my can.

    I think my biggest gripe of all is that the place is related to MAC (the guy owns or co-owns the store), who is all about preaching anti-NFA rhetoric... but when you go to his store to purchase something, you get extra background checks.
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
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    SouthEast
    I drove out of my way for a kiosk purchase, and it's been a total waste of time. Next one I'll just handle it all myself at a non kiosked dealer that is conveniently located. Take your own passport selfie on your phone print it through the walgreens app, fingerprint yourself, and mail your own payment info in. It has actually taken over a month longer at this point for my kiosk purchase than my last paper purchase, times shift, but it isn't faster by any means. I bought my fingerprint cards through the gov. printing office for 10 bucks for 100 shipped to my door so I didn't have to wait in line at the PD on print day and still pay 5 -10 dollars for a set of two prints.


    An aside bonus to the kiosk is that your info stays current in there for a period of time, so it can automatically generate the forms for your next purchase within that allowable time. With Efile back online and working at about 10 business days for form1's there is no reason to go through silencershop for those anymore, although it was convenient.
     

    Gabriel

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Jun 3, 2010
    6,713
    113
    The shore of wonderful Lake Michigan
    I thought the kiosk thing made it pretty painless (so painless that I'm still not even sure how to buy a suppressor without it :laugh:) and the worker at Copper Custom was quick to help with it and take my photo. It's the same guy that was there Tuesday and I'm pretty sure it was him on the phone today.

    That being said, I'm pretty sure we have the right fingerprint cards at work and I can just do it myself, so that's not an issue.
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
    77
    SouthEast
    I thought the kiosk thing made it pretty painless (so painless that I'm still not even sure how to buy a suppressor without it :laugh:) and the worker at Copper Custom was quick to help with it and take my photo. It's the same guy that was there Tuesday and I'm pretty sure it was him on the phone today.

    That being said, I'm pretty sure we have the right fingerprint cards at work and I can just do it myself, so that's not an issue.

    Its super easy to do it yourself if you can finger print yourself. I went through a few cards before I got it figured out, worst is getting down to that last left thumb after the left 4 and fudging it... For a photo I used my phone took an unsmiling selfie following passport rules, it's been accepted on both of my efile form 1's, and I was told there were no issues with my prints. I have been unfortunate enough to spend the last couple days back and forthing with my investigator and a programmer working bugs on the efile, my submissions were the perfect storm I guess. I'll be doing all my nfa stuff through bobcat now though, it is amazing how difficult it is to find a reliable dealer who keeps reliable hours and isn't an hour out of the way.
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
    83
    Indy
    I had to fill out a 4473 when I picked up my Saker from Premier too. I don't think it's all that uncommon.
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
    77
    SouthEast
    Kinda like that shop in Columbus that won't even let you in door without showing ID. Preachin one thing and doing the opposite.

    Wut? lol They are actually super awesome to deal with for nfa transfers. I don't thnk they have ever preached against positively identifying people touching your source of income. I can only imagine that you were the one trespassed for getting hostile in the store over needing to see an id before going on the floor to be holding the grudge this long and trying to relate their policy to every complaint thread. A person gets their id scanned and saved at every bar in college towns and no one throws a fit about that, but check in at a store that lets you fondle firearms freely without hassling you the whole time and people completely lose their minds. Free transfers with any purchase (even a gas block pin), free classes for at risk peoples, classes focused on youth and women, absorbing the legal costs to fight for a mile long range in the area, host the friends of the nra dinners.... They aren't a perfect shop and can take some attunement to get on the same wavelength but they are rock solid 2a supporters and their shop is a benefit to the entire local shooting community. /rant
     

    turnandshoot4

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 29, 2008
    8,626
    48
    Kouts
    Not saying they aren't awesome, I have no clue. But your reference about ID scanning in college bars doesn't go far here. This generally isn't a group that spends time in locations as such, let alone had over ID just to drink a beer.

    Just sayin
     

    Gabriel

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Jun 3, 2010
    6,713
    113
    The shore of wonderful Lake Michigan
    Wut? lol They are actually super awesome to deal with for nfa transfers. I don't thnk they have ever preached against positively identifying people touching your source of income. I can only imagine that you were the one trespassed for getting hostile in the store over needing to see an id before going on the floor to be holding the grudge this long and trying to relate their policy to every complaint thread. A person gets their id scanned and saved at every bar in college towns and no one throws a fit about that, but check in at a store that lets you fondle firearms freely without hassling you the whole time and people completely lose their minds. Free transfers with any purchase (even a gas block pin), free classes for at risk peoples, classes focused on youth and women, absorbing the legal costs to fight for a mile long range in the area, host the friends of the nra dinners.... They aren't a perfect shop and can take some attunement to get on the same wavelength but they are rock solid 2a supporters and their shop is a benefit to the entire local shooting community. /rant

    Meh. I’d leave the second anyone wanted to see ID (if I wasn’t filling out a 4473). Of course, I wouldn’t do a private party transaction with anyone that wanted to record my info or see a LTCH either.
     

    Spear Dane

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Sep 4, 2015
    5,119
    113
    Kokomo area
    Wut? lol They are actually super awesome to deal with for nfa transfers. I don't thnk they have ever preached against positively identifying people touching your source of income. I can only imagine that you were the one trespassed for getting hostile in the store over needing to see an id before going on the floor to be holding the grudge this long and trying to relate their policy to every complaint thread. A person gets their id scanned and saved at every bar in college towns and no one throws a fit about that, but check in at a store that lets you fondle firearms freely without hassling you the whole time and people completely lose their minds. Free transfers with any purchase (even a gas block pin), free classes for at risk peoples, classes focused on youth and women, absorbing the legal costs to fight for a mile long range in the area, host the friends of the nra dinners.... They aren't a perfect shop and can take some attunement to get on the same wavelength but they are rock solid 2a supporters and their shop is a benefit to the entire local shooting community. /rant

    Dude, you can take your ID scanning ANYWHERE and stuff it. I don't go to college bars. I don't go anywhere that unnecessarily collects my information. I've even told a couple of different doctors offices to stuff it when they wanted my SSN. They backed off. I protect that information the same way and for the same reason I protect my bank info. Do YOU go around giving your bank info? You must have no idea how remarkably easy it is to commit identity theft. All I need is your DL info and some time as your FB friend. That's it.
    I will have your name, address, license # and DOB. From FB I can get your moms maiden name, your fav sports team, where you went to high school...all that information that places use as 'security' questions.
    Zillion $$ multi-nationals are hacked on a regular basis and you think some mom and pop gun store in BFE Indiana has the wherewithal to protect your information? :rolleyes:
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
    77
    SouthEast
    Dude, you can take your ID scanning ANYWHERE and stuff it. I don't go to college bars. I don't go anywhere that unnecessarily collects my information. I've even told a couple of different doctors offices to stuff it when they wanted my SSN. They backed off. I protect that information the same way and for the same reason I protect my bank info. Do YOU go around giving your bank info? You must have no idea how remarkably easy it is to commit identity theft. All I need is your DL info and some time as your FB friend. That's it.
    I will have your name, address, license # and DOB. From FB I can get your moms maiden name, your fav sports team, where you went to high school...all that information that places use as 'security' questions.
    Zillion $$ multi-nationals are hacked on a regular basis and you think some mom and pop gun store in BFE Indiana has the wherewithal to protect your information? :rolleyes:

    So why worry about someone checking your id so that they don't have to put in locked display cases and hire sales staff to work the floor if it's all only a fb friend away? Anyone who thinks they have a secret side or secret info is completely out of their minds. I get more letters from .mil and .va about data breaches than I worry about with private entities. You think your social, fingers, and background are secure in the nfa office? Have you seen how outdated their website is let alone what their internal infrastructure looks like... If you don't feel good showing id then move along to another shop that forces you to interact with the counter guy who may or may not know anything but will always push some opinion down your throat likes gospel, but don't bash a good pro 2a shop every time you get the chance because you got your feelings hurt by a policy that obviously doesn't effect you. Monitor your credit and check and validate your bank statements, it's all insured by someone.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
    113
    Btown Rural
    giphy.gif
     

    shootersix

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 10, 2009
    4,280
    113
    I had to fill out a 4473 when I picked up my Saker from Premier too. I don't think it's all that uncommon.
    You do have to fill out a 4473 when you pick up a class 3 item, BUT the shop doesn’t have to call it in, the background check has already been done by the atf, line 20 on page 2 explains that, in th is case copper customs is taking an unessary step, and possibly lying on a federal form!. Because when you do the check it asks handgun, longgun or other (receiver or frame) op didn’t purchase any of them, so what did they check on the form?
     

    Hotrod29

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 6, 2016
    122
    18
    NWI
    I bought a suppressed sbr (2 stamper) from copper and when I went to pick it up they filled out and ran not 1 but 2 4473's and stated that they can't put 2 nfa items on 1 form. I figured it was just the sales guy not knowing any better. Now I see it is a pattern.

    Side note, I did 2 suppressor transfers with copper because I wanted to use the kiosk. On the phone they quoted me $60 nfa transfer fee. Once I finished scanning my prints into the kiosk and went up to pay, it was $90 each. I asked what happened to $60? They said there was a $30 kiosk fee. So yeah, another lgs gets my transfers from now on and I'll handle my own prints and pics
     

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