SBR Questions

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  • nightjunio

    Plinker
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    23   0   0
    Jan 18, 2010
    113
    18
    Indianapolis
    please forgive my ignorance, i am new to SBRs, i just got approved for my 1st one and have 2 questions im hoping i can find help on here. first question is do i have to fill out 5320 form to transport my SBR to Texas. if so doe sit cost and how much time does it take for ATF to approve me transporting across state lines.

    2nd question is i built my SBR with a 10.5 inch barrel. if i read correctly i can go up in length without issue, but i can shorten the length of it now or should i have just started with like a 7 inch barrel.
     

    KJQ6945

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
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    4   0   0
    Aug 5, 2012
    37,538
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    Texas
    If you’re transporting out of state, yes, you need to have a 5320. It’s free, send it in as soon as you know you’re going. Return times vary, from a few weeks to possibly a month or so.

    For the second part of your question, if you are making a permanent change to to the length, the ATF wants to be notified. As an example, you have an AR SBR lower, stamped for a 10.5” upper. You can buy a 7” upper, or a 14” upper, or any other size, including changing calibers. It’s no big deal deal. If you cut the 10.5” upper to 7”, or sell the original upper, making the change permanent, you’re supposed to notify them.
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
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    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
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    Indy
    :+1:

    The alternative is to pin on a 16" barrelled upper, temporarily take it out of "SBR status" so you can cross state lines and not notify the ATF.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
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    What kind of rifle did you SBR? Most likely an AR (which is what I did, too), but some of the answers might change.

    Once the lower is an SBR, you can use any length upper, including shorter. BUT, whatever length you reported to the ATF, you need to keep handy. It would be contrary to the regulations to permanently use a different length than what you put on the form.

    In terms of travel, different states have different definitions of "handgun." An SBR, counterintuitively, might be considered a "handgun" or "pistol" in those states. The 5320 is a federal form that keeps you square with the federal authorities.

    My practice when taking the SBR to Texas is different than that posted above. Since the lower is what is recorded as the "SBR," having a rifle length upper does not necessarily change whether you need the 5320. Since it is free, there's no downside to sending it in, and potential upside if there's ever a problem.

    Also, they are good for a year. Since there's only 1 place in Texas we go, I send one in annually saying that the dates I might go are for the entire upcoming year. That's all that's really needed. (I have mine run from September 1 to August 31.)

    Also, when going to Texas we go about an hour out of the way to avoid going through Illinois. It is in an abundance of caution, but worth it. Downsides there are much bigger.
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
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    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
    5,084
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    Indy
    Sorry OP, the way you described the SBR made me think it's an AR. T.Lex is correct.
     

    rkwhyte2

    aka: Vinny
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    37   0   0
    Sep 26, 2012
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    Sheridan
    Please educate me why a license to carry a HANDGUN has anything to do with conceal carrying a registered SBR?

    Are you planning on slinging the backpack over your shoulder and heading down the street? If so it may be considered a concealed weapon. I could be wrong it wouldn't be the first time but that is the way I see it.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
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    Can you legally conceal carry a registered SBR (or suppressor) in a backpack?

    The real answer is that we don't know for sure. There does not appear to be binding precedent from an appellate court on this issue, yet.

    In Indiana, there are several good arguments that it is a "rifle" (including the federal designation as a "short barrelled RIFLE"). But, it may meet the Indiana definition of a "handgun."

    "Handgun" means any firearm:
    (1) designed or adapted so as to be aimed and fired from one (1) hand, regardless of barrel length; or
    (2) any firearm with:
    (A) a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length; or
    (B) an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

    There is an Indiana Court of Appeals opinion (Estep) that a shotgun with a pistol grip (but without a stock IIRC) fit the definition under (1). Clearly, an SBR would fit at least (2)(a) - that's the whole point.

    So, in Indiana, an LTCH would be a good risk mitigation factor.

    Outside Indiana, it would depend on the state's laws/rules about definitions of rifles and handguns and the (lack of) freedom to carry them.

    ETA:
    For purposes of Indiana state law, suppressors aren't really addressed unless you commit a crime with one.
     

    nightjunio

    Plinker
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    23   0   0
    Jan 18, 2010
    113
    18
    Indianapolis
    thank you, i dont carry rifles often to texas, but ill take this advise and make sure i notify well in advance. the no going trough Illinois is whats very interesting. usually 3 hours of my trip is driving through illinois
     

    Amishman44

    Master
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    48   1   0
    Dec 30, 2009
    3,678
    113
    Woodburn
    Please educate me why a license to carry a HANDGUN has anything to do with conceal carrying a registered SBR?

    Are you planning on slinging the backpack over your shoulder and heading down the street? If so it may be considered a concealed weapon. I could be wrong it wouldn't be the first time but that is the way I see it.

    It's my understanding that a lot of that is based on whether your weapon is classified as a SRB or a pistol...a rifle is considered 'shoulderable' whereas a pistol is considered 'concealable' and that's the difference between not needing or needing a LTCH or CCW license!
     

    rkwhyte2

    aka: Vinny
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    37   0   0
    Sep 26, 2012
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    Sheridan
    It's my understanding that a lot of that is based on whether your weapon is classified as a SRB or a pistol...a rifle is considered 'shoulderable' whereas a pistol is considered 'concealable' and that's the difference between not needing or needing a LTCH or CCW license!

    Very good point
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
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    It's my understanding that a lot of that is based on whether your weapon is classified as a SRB or a pistol...a rifle is considered 'shoulderable' whereas a pistol is considered 'concealable' and that's the difference between not needing or needing a LTCH or CCW license!

    So, most states (all that I'm familiar with) have actual definitions. In common sense terms, that dichotomy is probably right. That's the way most people think of it.

    But, there's no requirement that laws be written to reflect what people think makes sense. ;)
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    204   3   0
    Aug 26, 2011
    40,112
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    SOUTH of Zombie city
    So, most states (all that I'm familiar with) have actual definitions. In common sense terms, that dichotomy is probably right. That's the way most people think of it.

    But, there's no requirement that laws be written to reflect what people think makes sense. ;)
    The constitution says that its assumed to be legal unless specifically made illegal.
    Ive never understood why most people feel the need to be told what they can or cant do. I think they have a skewed reality of what freedom is.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    The constitution says that its assumed to be legal unless specifically made illegal.

    Where does it say that?

    Ive never understood why most people feel the need to be told what they can or cant do. I think they have a skewed reality of what freedom is.
    All laws restrict freedom - including the Constitution. Our system requires representatives of the people to determine what laws should be passed, and thus which freedoms will be limited.

    Its a flawed system, but better than every other system currently available.
     

    indysims

    Sharpshooter
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    17   0   1
    Aug 31, 2011
    717
    28
    A stock on a legally classified SBR would surly exclude if from Indiana's definition of a "handgun".

    There is an ATF "opinion" letter that states basically "configuration determines classification" an SBR lower is no longer legally treated as an SBR if it is not in a SBR configuration. Put a 16" upper on an SBR and it's no longer defined as an SBR and not subject to those regulations. It would also seem one could take a SBR and put a brace on it, and it's now a pistol. (As long as it is a Form 1 SBR, that wasn't originally sold as an SBR?)

    https://imgur.com/a/2kGJvHf
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
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    A stock on a legally classified SBR would surly exclude if from Indiana's definition of a "handgun".

    Well, here's the definition (re-quoted):
    "Handgun" means any firearm:
    (1) designed or adapted so as to be aimed and fired from one (1) hand, regardless of barrel length; or
    (2) any firearm with:
    (A) a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length; or
    (B) an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

    There's no mention of a stock. So, taking the position that a stock makes any difference in Indiana carries risk.

    There is an ATF "opinion" letter that states basically "configuration determines classification" an SBR lower is no longer legally treated as an SBR if it is not in a SBR configuration. Put a 16" upper on an SBR and it's no longer defined as an SBR and not subject to those regulations. It would also seem one could take a SBR and put a brace on it, and it's now a pistol. (As long as it is a Form 1 SBR, that wasn't originally sold as an SBR?)
    https://imgur.com/a/2kGJvHf

    As a federal agency, the ATF cannot bind Indiana's law enforcement. Now, that's great evidence and a very reasoned approach. I would hope that an Indiana jury would see the merit of that position.

    But, until then, we don't know for sure.
     
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