Is it a pistol? AOW? SBR? Or illegal?

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  • Spazzmodicus

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    Classified as UAF, Ugly As F.......



    Not trying to create a piece of art. Just wanting to make a quick-access "Kyle Rittenhouse" car gun. I have a Zenitco 2PS laser on the way from Russia. But my main question was about the forgrip. It's not a standard 90 degree foregrip, so does that change anything?or suddenly reclassify it, as is?
     

    Spazzmodicus

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    Illegal. The front grip means that it is no longer designed to be fired with one hand, therefore no longer a pistol.

    I disagree. Adding an arm brace and using it as a buttstock(which at this point is permissible with the ATF) does not suddenly turn the pistol into a rifle. So by the same token, holding a pistol with two hands does it make it NOT a pistol. It is not illegal to use any pistol with two hands nor does two handed operation magically reclassify as an AOW or something else. But if you want to cite some documentation I will be glad hear what you have to say.

    All manner of angled foregrips are legal.

    This was my understanding but one never knows what phase of PMS the ATF may be feeling any given moment or day.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    Not trying to create a piece of art. Just wanting to make a quick-access "Kyle Rittenhouse" car gun. I have a Zenitco 2PS laser on the way from Russia. But my main question was about the forgrip. It's not a standard 90 degree foregrip, so does that change anything?or suddenly reclassify it, as is?
    See post #6, but I'm no expert.
     

    snorko

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    So, vertical fore grip = stamp, angled fore grip = no stamp. When did that change, or has it always been that way?

    Always been that way I believe. Most folks used to use typical AFG such as the Magpul variety. With the growing popularity of braced pistols, lots of companies started producing more grip friendly AFG units such as above.

    There is a letter from the ATF out there somewhere that specifically defines a VFG as being 90 degrees, so some folks are pushing the envelope by using the BCM Gunfighter grip on pistols as it is a few degrees off vertical. An example how silly the NFA is, I would say.
     

    seldon14

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    Always been that way I believe. Most folks used to use typical AFG such as the Magpul variety. With the growing popularity of braced pistols, lots of companies started producing more grip friendly AFG units such as above.

    There is a letter from the ATF out there somewhere that specifically defines a VFG as being 90 degrees, so some folks are pushing the envelope by using the BCM Gunfighter grip on pistols as it is a few degrees off vertical. An example how silly the NFA is, I would say.

    Yeah I seem to recall as soon as the Magpul AFG hit people started writing in and getting letters saying they where not "vertical grips" , and then people started asking about all sorts of stuff, like rail mounted gun nutz, cloth straps, chains etc.

    Looks like the picture above is probably a picture, but could potentially be long enough to be an "other".
     

    Cameramonkey

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    And somebody created a forward mounted extra mag holder that mounts on a rail. Its on an angle, and its not a grip per se, but you can most definitely grab it with your support hand.


    Like part of this cool toy.
    [video=youtube_share;ejou8wUUHTc]https://youtu.be/ejou8wUUHTc[/video]
     

    markiemark

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    Always been that way I believe. Most folks used to use typical AFG such as the Magpul variety. With the growing popularity of braced pistols, lots of companies started producing more grip friendly AFG units such as above.

    I believe the same, I think they recently clarified it a bit more which is why its been discussed lately. Im sure it stems from people sending emails or questions to clarify causing them to share again where they stand (which is still not clear really nor provides a good reason why haha).

    I’ll be honest looking at that gun the pistol buffer looks more like a barrel, like a backwards p90 almost :n00b:
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Legality or illegality depends upon the state one is in at any given time.

    Federally - it's nothing more than an AR pistol.

    Also ugly. Just get a AFG.
     

    Sigblitz

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    Is this the thing that came out a year ago, with no rifle, and completely inaccurate? The one with no rifling isn't a rifle, but totally useless.
     

    Trigger Time

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    Always been that way I believe. Most folks used to use typical AFG such as the Magpul variety. With the growing popularity of braced pistols, lots of companies started producing more grip friendly AFG units such as above.

    There is a letter from the ATF out there somewhere that specifically defines a VFG as being 90 degrees, so some folks are pushing the envelope by using the BCM Gunfighter grip on pistols as it is a few degrees off vertical. An example how silly the NFA is, I would say.
    I think thats a stupid risk to take myself so I wont be doing it.
    Why would they risk freedom and losing your gun rights over a grip?
    Even on bcm's package it says VFG. That's gonna be hard to explain in court when even the manufacturer labeled and sold it to you as a vertical forgrip.
    Also even if you win in court, you are most likely bankrupt now.
    Nope, not me
     
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