Blade Steel Question

[jeremy]

I am getting a custom Buck 110 for my little brother (can you still call a 30 year old your little brother?) for all the stuff I put him though growing up. I no very little of blade steels and would appreciate any and all advise. What is the difference between S30V and 420HC?

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[rhino]

I am getting a custom Buck 110 for my little brother (can you still call a 30 year old your little brother?) for all the stuff I put him though growing up. I no very little of blade steels and would appreciate any and all advise. What is the difference between S30V and 420HC?

Thanks,
Jeremy

First, I applaud you for your choice of a very thoughtful and useful gift. Second, absolutely get the S30V for this knife. There is no point in getting a custom Buck 110 and not spend the extra few dollars for the better steel.

The differences are many. The composition is drastically different, but the bottom line is that the S30V will outperform the 420HC in pretty much every way. Assuming proper heat treatment (and Buck's are the best in the business since they have the best heat treater in the business on contract, Paul Bos), the S30V will take a sharper edge (slightly) and then maintain that edge a lot longer than the 420HC.

Now, from any other maker, I would not want a knife whose blade was made of 420HC. It is a relatively low carbon stainless steel, and with inadequate heat treatment (as you'll find from many makers), its performance is unacceptable in terms of the edge it will take and the amount of cutting you can do before it gets too dull to use. On the other hand, a lot of people don't use their knive for serious cutting, but do a lot of scraping and such. The 420HC will take some abuse and resists rust pretty well, so it's low maintenance. The primary reason why 420HC and similar steels are used is because they are significantly easier to machine than some of the higher end steels. The cost of the raw material is less, but the big cost saving is less wear on the machining tools.

DO NOT CONFUSE 420HC with 420 or its retarded cousin, 420J2. 420HC has more carbon and is an acceptable choice with a good heat treatment. 420J2 (which is ubiquitous among cheap knives) should only be considered if the knife is ornamental or you're going to use it to scrape and clean stuff.

Given that, heat treatment and edge geometry make all the difference in the world. A Buck 110 with the standard 420HC is a fine tool because of 1) first rate heat treatments, and 2) superior edge and blade geometry. They are excellent cutting tools.

CPM S30V is a different animal. It too can be crap with poor heat treatment, but as I mentioned, Buck knows how to get 'er done. CPM S30V is from a company called Crucible Particle Melt (CPM). Their steels are made from taking the alloy in powdered form, then applying a lot pressure and heat to fuse the powder into a solid billet of steel. The end effect is a piece of steel whose composition and grain structure are more uniform and controllable than any other available manufacturing process. In addition, the elements in S30V (you can find a list with a web search) lend themselves in combination to being an ideal cutlery steel. The carbides that are formes are fine enough to support a very thing, keenly sharp edge that will cut really well. Contrast to something like the classic 440C, which forms much larger carbides, which prevent it from being able to support the kind of really thin edge I like to put on my knives.

There are some steel-related and other FAQ documents available at BladeForums.com if you want to know more.

 

[jeremy]

Rhino,
Thanks I will be spending the extra on the S30V. We both still have the bucks our grandpa gave us, mine is now on display, he still carries his. The 110 is probably the best folder I have ever used that is why we have both found it so hard to replace in our daily carry.
Now I just have to go through the rest of the options that buck has and pick out just the right one that is affordable. Sigh, to bad I am not Bill Gates rich.

 

[jimbo-indy]

+1 on the S30V. I've got a Spyderco with S30V blade that takes and holds a really fine edge. Great steel for blades.
Also agree with rino on the Bos heat treat. My Buck Alpha Hunter has a blade of ATS6 with Bos heat treat and it too holds a fine edge.
There is little reason for a knife that will not take AND HOLD a fine edge. The only way to do that is with proper steel and heat treat. Without that, all the rest is just window dressing.

 

[rhino]

Jeremy ... if you want suggestions, I think the stag or similar bone with the nickel silver bolsters looks really nice. I also like the water buffalo, either textured or smooth. The dilemma I would have is whether to have the exposed rivets or not. Sometimes I think they are a nice accent, and sometimes I think I like the look without them.

If you go to the Buck forum at BladeForums.com, you will find an enthusiastic, friendly crowd who will be more than happy to share any and all Buck information and opinions they have. The guy who runs the Buck Custom Shop (Joe Hauser) is the moderator too.

Jimbo ... good choices!

I have two Buck 110s. One is a Cabela's Alaskan Guide Series with the CPM S30V steel. It's awesome, but I don't use it much. It's one of the best bargains on the market for a well made knife with that premium steel.

My other Buck started life as the standard 110 that I snagged from one of the sporting goods stores (Gander Mountain, I think) when it was on sale with a rebate that resulted in a final price of $19.99 or thereabouts. It was a great knife that served me well, but I kept reading about the BG-42 "blade swaps" that the custom shop was offering for a while. I went ahead and did it, and now I have a standard Buck 110, but with a BG-42 blade. In my opinion, BG-42 is in the same league as S30V in peformance, but it has become uncommon in the cutlery industry. Buck stopped doing the blade swaps last year, and I believe that the custom shop offers S30V as their premium steel now. The BG-42 is history for now!

For anyone interested, here is where you can get a Buck 110 built just the way you want it: BUCK. You get a truly custom knife at a price that is lower than many production folders!

 

[jeremy]

I am thinking old school and simple. I think it is one of the reasons that makes the standard buck such a good seller, form, function, and eye pleasing.

I am leaning towards Brass bolsters. Finger Grooves, and Rivets. Actually I am finding the toughest decision to be between oak or walnut.

 

[obijohn]

the 110 and it's little brother the 112 are tremendous knives. a bit heavy for edc, but i did just that with a 112 for many years. that old 112 had more miles on it than my old truck and many stamps on it's passport.

as far as anything knife goes, my source of information is rhino. he is wise to the blade.

 

[rhino]

I am thinking old school and simple. I think it is one of the reasons that makes the standard buck such a good seller, form, function, and eye pleasing.

I am leaning towards Brass bolsters. Finger Grooves, and Rivets. Actually I am finding the toughest decision to be between oak or walnut.

Ahh ... going for a classic look!

I'm with you on everything but the finger grooves. I'd like to have just one up front, but I don't like 'em all the way down the grip.

 

[jeremy]

I've said it before the 110 is the most eye appealing knife I think I have ever used.

The reason for going with the finger grooves is I have used my 110 as a hunting knife it can get a little hard to hold and control.

 

[VN Vet]

I have a Damascus Steel knife coming in soon. 512 folds. Beautiful markings. Bone handle. Sheep leather sheath. Hand made in Sweden by J. Norman.

 

[Cwood]

I have a Damascus Steel knife coming in soon. 512 folds. Beautiful markings. Bone handle. Sheep leather sheath. Hand made in Sweden by J. Norman.

That is a beautiful looking knife!

 

[kolob10]

S30V is great steel if heat treated properly. I have a couple knifes with that steel and they sharpen without too much effort and hold an edge great.

 

[tyler34]

if you want a cheap s30v blade grab a spyderco native. $40 at wal-mart. also i recently read that the chromium content s30v was tested at 40%, just a little random info.

 

[rhino]

That is an excellent bargain.

Another good source of S30V knives are the Alaskan Guide Series from Cabela's. The Buck 110 in the line is still about $80 I think. It's an awesome knife!

 

[jeremy]

Well thank you all for some great advice. I am sure my brother will appreciate it also, he is on the receiving end.

I have purchased for him a Buck 110 with S30V blade, brass bolsters and rivets, and a heritage walnut handle. With a tan leather sheathe for it to ride in.
I know a classic look, still timeless though.

 

[rhino]

Awesome!