Making my first knife, any suggestions are welcome.

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • teddy12b

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Nov 25, 2008
    7,661
    113
    After seeing threads here and over the years I've always been curious about it myself, so I decided to make my first knife. I'm making it the way I want it for me, and I think it'll be fun. I've got a pattern drawn up that I like. I've bought a sheath and somewhat designed the knife around what would work well in that sheath. I've got the steel (1095 high carbon) heading my way already.

    Right now the plan is to trace out my pattern on the steel and start cutting using a dremel to remove the bulk of the excess material, then switch to small grinding and files as needed. I've spent plenty of time doing and being around metal work so most of that's not anything new to me. I feel pretty comfortable with the project right up to the point where I have to heat treat the blade. I'm on the fence about how best to do it. I'm thinking about the cookie sheet in the oven and not really sure how high for how long I'm going to do it. I could also bring it into work and use a torch and get it red hot if I really need to. I know a lot of the heating depends on how tough I want the steel, but I'm thinking that something in the middle of the road would be just fine. Nothing too brittle, but nothing too malleable either. My goal is to have something that can be resharpened relatively easily.

    As far as the handle goes, I'm going to make it easy on the first time and probably look for Esee replacement handles and handware and trace that out on the handle and make that work. So far, that's the plan. If there's any suggestions, I'm all ears.
     
    Last edited:

    chezuki

    Human
    Rating - 100%
    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,151
    113
    Behind Bars
    After seeing threads here and over the years I've always been curious about it myself, so I decided to make my first knife. I'm making it the way I want it for me, and I think it'll be fun. I've got a pattern drawn up that I like. I've bought a sheath and somewhat designed the knife around what would work well in that sheath. I've got the steel (1095 high carbon) heading my way already.

    Right now the plan is to trace out my pattern on the steel and start cutting using a dremel to remove the bulk of the excess material, then switch to small grinding and files as needed. I've spent plenty of time doing and being around metal work so most of that's not anything new to me. I feel pretty comfortable with the project right up to the point where I have to heat treat the blade. I'm on the fence about how best to do it. I'm thinking about the cookie sheet in the oven and not really sure how high for how long I'm going to do it. I could also bring it into work and use a torch and get it red hot if I really need to. I know a lot of the heating depends on how tough I want the steel, but I'm thinking that something in the middle of the road would be just fine. Nothing too brittle, but nothing too malleable either. My goal is to have something that can be resharpened relatively easily.

    As far as the handle goes, I'm going to make it easy on the first time and probably look for Esee replacement handles and handware and trace that out on the handle and make that work. So far, that's the plan. If there's any suggestions, I'm all ears.

    You can temper in the oven, but the hardening part of "heat treating" will require much higher temperatures. It can be done at home with a charcoal chimney, but be careful. I remember a thread a few years back where an INGO'r set his garage on fire doing it.
     

    PaulJF

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    May 3, 2010
    284
    34
    Linden
    I am no expert, but I have made one or two, years ago. If you use the torch, drill your holes for pins/ lanyard first. Hang the knife and slowly heat with the torch, keeping the heat even along the entire length. When it is glowing and a magnet will no longer attract, quench it in oil.
    I tempered mine in the oven, inside a pyrex baking dish, until it was straw colored. I cannot remember at what temperature or for how long, sorry.
     

    teddy12b

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Nov 25, 2008
    7,661
    113
    From what I've read, I need to get the steel in the 1500 degree range before sticking it in some oil and my oven can't do that. Ideally I'd just toss it in the oven, but I don't know if that's going to work or not. Nice thing is that I've got enough steel coming to make about 3 knives, so I can screw it up once or twice before making the perfect final product.
     

    PaulJF

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    May 3, 2010
    284
    34
    Linden
    From what I've read, I need to get the steel in the 1500 degree range before sticking it in some oil and my oven can't do that. Ideally I'd just toss it in the oven, but I don't know if that's going to work or not. Nice thing is that I've got enough steel coming to make about 3 knives, so I can screw it up once or twice before making the perfect final product.


    Right, your oven will not take care of the entire process. Torch, quench, then temper in oven.
     

    teddy12b

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Nov 25, 2008
    7,661
    113
    Right, your oven will not take care of the entire process. Torch, quench, then temper in oven.

    Ok, that's what I thought I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. From what I was seeing on using the torch was that you're supposed to keep the blade red/orange hot for 10 minutes or so before quenching it. Is that completely true or can I just heat it up 100% in a minute or two and them just toss it in a can of oil.

    On the topic of oil, does it really matter whether I use veggie oil or 10w30, or salt water? Is there a preferred quenching fluid? Keep in mind I intend to do the best job that I can here but eventually I will be batoning with this knife and using it on a ferro rod to make fires.
     

    PaulJF

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    May 3, 2010
    284
    34
    Linden
    Again, I am no expert. Hopefully, someone with more experience will be along shortly. I believe you should heat to orange and air cool a couple of times to normalize the steel. You should not need to hold that heat for any longer than needed to test with a magnet (magnet should not attract). Then heat to orange again and quench in oil or even water (I think). The oil can be vegetable or motor oil. After cooling, I would polish the steel and then temper in the oven.

    In the heat treat process, you can get fancy and treat the edge and spine differently. As an amateur, I just did the whole knife the same. Also, oven temps and the color you are shooting for will vary depending on the intended use of the knife. I am sure Google can answer those questions better than I can.
     

    Gamez235

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Mar 24, 2009
    3,598
    48
    Upstate
    No expert, but been traveling down this road for a few weeks. I started with a piece of wood, and did the entire shaping process and that got me familiar with the tools and work flow. Next bought a piece of steel from lowes and did it all over again. Make sure to heat that piece to bright red and let it cool slowly, other wise it is hard. Then pick up a piece of 1095, 1084, or O-1. I went this route so I knew exactly which steel I was using and could heat treat better. New Jersey steel baron, or hit me up and I'll square you away with a piece. Next watch a few videos on the Youtubes, trollsky and 3riverblades are two good channels with lots of videos on making knives with minimal tools.
    Z
    Heat treating is the tricky part. I've done a few with the torch method, to okay results. The most recent I am using a propane forge with allows me to get a better and more even soak, and the blades are much better than with the torch method. Getting to the proper temp and holding it for that correct amount of time will mean the real difference in edge retention and durability.
     

    Gamez235

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Mar 24, 2009
    3,598
    48
    Upstate
    Heck, just swing by the house one night and I'll show you how I've been doing it. Forge is open to use as well when the time comes.
     

    cubby

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 5, 2008
    2,256
    38
    LaGrange, IN
    Heat treat is the single most important part of knife making. A great piece of material can be made into trash with a poor heat treatment. A moderate piece of material can be transformed into a phenomenal tool with great heat treatment.

    think of it like this: let's say on your first knife, you spend 20 hours laboring on it. You poor your heart into it, sweat, blood, and time. You then heat treat it to an unknown temp for "a few minutes" and quench it "quickly". The result? No idea. Too many variables. You use the knife. It cuts great!!! And then... Cracks right down the center. Or it cuts like crap. Or it's great forever.

    Heat at treat is a science. I would source a professional or at minimum, someone with experience. A kiln or heat treat oven will work best, but are not required. But you will have worked too darn hard on that knife to let a simple, yet finite process ruin the whole thing. And know what your steel is. The process is NOT the same across the board!

    and show us pictures!
     

    ghostdncr

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Feb 14, 2013
    552
    18
    Louisville
    Easiest and surest way I've ever found for determining critical temp when heat treating with a torch? As soon as your workpiece crosses the critical temp and all those magical molecular changes start happening within the metal, a magnet will no longer be drawn to the steel. This method will work perfectly on 1095.

    Another option you may consider if working from home is differential heat treating. It's a bit more involved but I've managed to do it, so it can't be that hard. Conclude this method with some near-religious stone work and you'll be rewarded with what the Japanese call "hamon." This is the frosted cutting edge that appears to have been passed under a wire wheel and is something of a hallmark of all differentially heat-treated blades.

    Hamon (swordsmithing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     

    teddy12b

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Nov 25, 2008
    7,661
    113
    Heck, just swing by the house one night and I'll show you how I've been doing it. Forge is open to use as well when the time comes.

    I may have to take you up on that.

    Doesn't sound like the torch method is going to be my best bet. I got my piece of steel on ebay and it should be at the house tonight. It's the width and thickness that I wanted, but three times as long as I'd need so I can mess something up and still have enough material for a redo if need be. Once I get the steel, I'll get my pattern on it and at least starts roughly cutting it into the desired shape.
     

    cubby

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 5, 2008
    2,256
    38
    LaGrange, IN
    The work piece will demagnetize above a certian temp, yes. You can also go by the color or the blade during heating. Trouble is, this two things are so fluid and hard to pinpoint the exact temp, it's not very exact.

    having said all that: heat treating has been around since long before any modern methods. And has been done to a fantastic level. But science makes things so much more repeatable and dependable.
     

    Kurr

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 18, 2011
    1,234
    113
    Jefferson County
    When you take your metal above magnetization temp and hold it this is called "normalization". Supposed to relieve stresses in the metal.

    When you take it above magnetization temp and cool slowly (+/- 24 hours) this process is called "annealing" and will soften the metal.

    When you take the metal to above magnetization and cool rapidly (quench) this process will harden your metal. Your files will skate off.

    After you quench, heating the blade to a "low" temp (600 deg or less) this will soften the metal to a good working hardness. On clean metal you can see the colors run. Straw/hay - blue is usually where I saw best results. This page contains a handy chart:
    Working the Steel

    A "softback draw" involves quenching the blade and making sure the edge is clean bright metal then heating from the spine such as laying the spine on a red/yellow glowing hunk of steel and letting the heat run to the edge. You can see the colors change on the edge (farthest away from the block) and when it gets straw - blue depending on hardness you want, remove and quench. This produces a suitably hard working edge, with a softer hardness towords the spine. A knife properly treated as such can be put in a vise and bent 90 degrees and not break but will have a good hardness for a working edge.

    For more conversations on the making/heat treating process a good site is Iforgeiron.com I use to learn a lot there when I was into blacksmithing.
     

    teddy12b

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Nov 25, 2008
    7,661
    113
    Am I understanding you guys correctly that I should have the knife in it's nearly finished form before the heat treat? I was planning on having the design of the blade cut, and shaped to a nearly complete stage, with the exception of having put an edge on the blade. Do I have the sequence of the process in the right order?
     

    Kurr

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 18, 2011
    1,234
    113
    Jefferson County
    Right, basically all done but the sharpening. Reason is that the high temp required for hardening can ruin the thin edge.

    Also if you get it too hot before the quench you can actually burn carbon out of the steel. When this happens it starts to look like a 4th of july sparkler.
     

    cubby

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 5, 2008
    2,256
    38
    LaGrange, IN
    Right, basically all done but the sharpening. Reason is that the high temp required for hardening can ruin the thin edge.

    Also if you get it too hot before the quench you can actually burn carbon out of the steel. When this happens it starts to look like a 4th of july sparkler.

    i dont do it this way. I do all my grinding after heat treat. I find I use less belts, and make fewer mistakes. When I first started, and for a few years, I did it the other way. Grind, ht, grind some more. I like it better to do all my grinding after. And Warpage is greatly reduced.
     

    Gamez235

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Mar 24, 2009
    3,598
    48
    Upstate
    I agree with Cubby, he knows his stuff. I am on my 6th knife, so take my advice as a newcomer who is figuring this out as he goes. I am all ear to the more experienced guys and listen closey to what they say.. I file them into shape before heat treat, but that because I don't have a proper belt grinder (nor know the proper way to use it and achieve the grinds, SOMEBODY TEACH ME PLEASE!) and the filing on the hardened steel is already SLOW going.

    Saving for a EvenHeat right now.
     

    cubby

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 5, 2008
    2,256
    38
    LaGrange, IN
    It can be done either way, and it comes down mostly to personal preference. I don't like doing the same thing twice. There are makers who refuse to grind hardly anything after heat treat, too.

    IF you take it to 99% complete , be very careful!!!! It is in every heat treaters operating clauses that they won't be held accountable for failures in ht due to thin, uneven, or any other anomaly in grinding. Leave enough material to avoid issues! :)
     

    cubby

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Nov 5, 2008
    2,256
    38
    LaGrange, IN
    Gamez,

    i intend to but a welder at some point this year. We can weld you up a 2x72 frame on the cheap. You will just need a motor, wheels, and a few knobs. Look similar to my Orange Crush grinder.

     
    Top Bottom