Basic Sharpener and sharpening devices question?

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  • Cygnus

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    So, New to knives, (or at least to sharpening them and caring for them. LOL) Used stones as kid/teen. Three questions:

    1. I saw a SOG SH 02 Table top sharpener on Amazon for $17. Are these decent? Any angle to hold it at?
    2. What should I expect to pay for a basic set of sharpening stones
    3. Differences between sharpening carbon steel versus stainless? (Ceramic sharpeners work on both?)

    Thanks in advance!
     
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    hammerd13

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    The SOG sharpener you referenced might be okay for an occasional touch up. Definitely worth having something like that. Careful with these sharpeners though, as you can easily blunt your blade tip if you pull the knife all the way through and let the tip scrape the sharpening material on the way out.

    I personally use something like this for touch-ups: https://www.amazon.com/Lansky-4-rod...d=1544049296&sr=1-12&keywords=knife+sharpener .

    I also use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q9C4AE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    Sooner or later, you'll want something that you can use to reprofile an edge. The aforementioned sharpeners won't do that. I use an Edge Pro for this purpose and can highly recommend it. https://www.edgeproinc.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System-c3/

    The Wicked Edge system is also very popular. https://wickededgeusa.com/

    If money is really tight, you could easily use the Lansky system. https://lansky.com/index.php/products/dlx-5-stone-system/

    I've had no trouble sharpening everything from 1095 carbon to D2 to M390 knife steel with the aforementioned systems. D2 and M390 can really put a hurtin' on a traditional stone, so you may consider the diamond variety of stone for those blades.

    Eventually you'll learn many tricks to sharpen effectively, regardless of the system(s) you choose. The key to sharpening is looking for the burr and understanding the proper sharpening angle for a particular blade. Good luck in your search!!
     

    Cygnus

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    The SOG sharpener you referenced might be okay for an occasional touch up. Definitely worth having something like that. Careful with these sharpeners though, as you can easily blunt your blade tip if you pull the knife all the way through and let the tip scrape the sharpening material on the way out.

    I personally use something like this for touch-ups: https://www.amazon.com/Lansky-4-rod...d=1544049296&sr=1-12&keywords=knife+sharpener .

    I also use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q9C4AE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    Sooner or later, you'll want something that you can use to reprofile an edge. The aforementioned sharpeners won't do that. I use an Edge Pro for this purpose and can highly recommend it. https://www.edgeproinc.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System-c3/

    The Wicked Edge system is also very popular. https://wickededgeusa.com/

    If money is really tight, you could easily use the Lansky system. https://lansky.com/index.php/products/dlx-5-stone-system/

    I've had no trouble sharpening everything from 1095 carbon to D2 to M390 knife steel with the aforementioned systems. D2 and M390 can really put a hurtin' on a traditional stone, so you may consider the diamond variety of stone for those blades.

    Eventually you'll learn many tricks to sharpen effectively, regardless of the system(s) you choose. The key to sharpening is looking for the burr and understanding the proper sharpening angle for a particular blade. Good luck in your search!!

    Cool, Thanks! There was a deal on the 4 rod lansky and the SOG. So like a buy one get one half off.
     

    rhino

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    So, New to knives, (or at least to sharpening them and caring for them. LOL) Used stones as kid/teen. Three questions:

    1. I saw a SOG SH 02 Table top sharpener on Amazon for $17. Are these decent? Any angle to hold it at?
    2. What should I expect to pay for a basic set of sharpening stones
    3. Differences between sharpening carbon steel versus stainless? (Ceramic sharpeners work on both?)

    Thanks in advance!

    The SOG thing might be okay for cheap kitchen knives that you don't care about, but I wouldn't use it on a knife that you intend to keep and use long term. It look like it uses a pair of tungsten carbide cutters to rip metal off of the blade, which is common for cheap, pull-through sharpeners. It will make a dull knife sharper, but it will also destroy it over time and the edge it produces won't be very good without additional work.

    If you want a simple, easy to use sharpener: get the Spyderco Sharpmaker. Lots of videos available to show you how to use it. If your knife is really dull, you may want to add the diamond sleeves.


    If you want to use stones, I recommend starting with a Norton combination India stone. One side is coarse for removing a lot of metal quickly and the other side is relatively fine to finish the edge. You can get an 8x2x1 inch Norton combination stone for under $25. If you need a more refined edge, you can add another finer stone or even use the Sharpmaker afterward.

    Sharpening carbon steel vs. stainless steel is a complicated question because the alloys used for knives have gotten more numerous and more complicated. Some steels are more abrasion resistant than others, which is why they tend to hold an edge longer, but it also makes them more challenging to sharpen. In general, simple carbon steels like 1095 are easier to sharpen than most stainless steels, but heat treatment and how hard the steel is can make a huge difference.

    Ceramics will work on any steel, but they work best for maintaining already sharp edges because they don't remove metal very quickly. If you have to sharpen a truly dull blade with ceramics, it's going to take significant effort compared to a Norton stone or a coarse water stone, for instance. Diamond abrasives abrade steel the quickest.
     

    Notropis

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    Aug 22, 2018
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    I use Ez lap stones. I finally wore out my small 25 year old "stone" and in the last couple years upgraded to below link. It's large enough to handle large chefs knives and even long filet knives. Requires basic sharpening skills but will put a fine edge very quickly on knives.
    https://www.amazon.com/EZE-LAP-DD6S...ie=UTF8&qid=1544062691&sr=8-1&keywords=Ez+lap

    Edit to add, I actually have the 3 x 8....600 and 1200. It's more costly than above link.
     
    Last edited:

    Tactically Fat

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    The Spyderco Sharpmaker will only work if you're able to consistently and repeatedly keep your wrist at such an angle that the knife blade is perpendicular to the floor.

    IE - keep the blade perpendicular and let the angled stones of the sharpener be "the angle".

    From my previous experience with a Sharpmaker - I cannot do this well enough for long enough to get even crappy results from a Sharpmaker. I sold it. It leaves too much room for error and inconsistency. If some of y'all CAN - that's awesome.

    I bought an inexpensive Lanskey sharpening system and...haven't used it. I'd buy a Wicked Edge if I could even come close to thinking I could afford it / justify it.
     

    WhitleyStu

    Keep'em Scary Sharp!!!
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    Start with a guided sharpener like Lansky, Edge Pro or Wicked Edge. The results from a guided sharpener will keep you from ruining blades in the beginning. After over 40 years of sharpening I still use several guided sharpeners; a Tormek for a nice "V" grind and a Reeder with knife attachment for both a "V" grind or a convex edge.
     

    Gabriel

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    TJ Kackowski

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    I'm using the Razor Edge system ... https://www.razoredgesystems.com/ ... to keep all my knives sharp. John Juranitch knows how to sharpen an edge, and how to explain it to a schmuck like me ... if nothing else, buy his book ... https://www.razoredgesystems.com/products/books/product/2-razor-edge-book-of-sharpening ... the principles he explains are applicable to any and all knife sharpening systems.

    Someday, if funding allows, I'd like to try the Wicked Edge system.

    When I sharpen my in-laws' kitchen knives, I now use the basic Work Sharp sharpener ... https://www.worksharptools.com/ ... since they still keep their knives in a common drawer, I no longer take the time to use the Razor Edge system. I would buy the Ken Onion version of the Work Sharp sharpener if I were buying today. The only real drawback to this system is a potential to rounding the tip and creating a tail at the back of the blade ... a bit of practice with some cheap Goodwill knives (or your in-law's kitchen knives) eliminates these drawbacks.
     

    rhino

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    I'm using the Razor Edge system ... https://www.razoredgesystems.com/ ... to keep all my knives sharp. John Juranitch knows how to sharpen an edge, and how to explain it to a schmuck like me ... if nothing else, buy his book ... https://www.razoredgesystems.com/products/books/product/2-razor-edge-book-of-sharpening ... the principles he explains are applicable to any and all knife sharpening systems.

    This is solid advice. John Juranitch literally wrote the book on sharpening.

    Does the wear on the guides as they drag across the stone eventually make any difference in how well they maintain the angle?


    When I sharpen my in-laws' kitchen knives, I now use the basic Work Sharp sharpener ... https://www.worksharptools.com/ ... since they still keep their knives in a common drawer, I no longer take the time to use the Razor Edge system. I would buy the Ken Onion version of the Work Sharp sharpener if I were buying today. The only real drawback to this system is a potential to rounding the tip and creating a tail at the back of the blade ... a bit of practice with some cheap Goodwill knives (or your in-law's kitchen knives) eliminates these drawbacks.

    This is also good advice. I need to get a Ken Onion for some things that I need to have convex edges.
     

    TJ Kackowski

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    Does the wear on the guides as they drag across the stone eventually make any difference in how well they maintain the angle?
    The wear does indeed cause a slight angle change, but not enough to be overly concerned about. For any given sharpening session, the angles are consistent. However, from one sharpening to another (given you've used the guides a good bit), there will be a change.

    I buy new guides when the edge is worn down to the point of meeting the other side.

    The attached PDF shows some images of a new guide vs. a worn guide.

    FWIW, it took me more than 15 years to get that much wear on the guide. The new guide is 2 years old. YMMV depending upon how many knives you sharpen, and how often. For touch ups, I use the fine stone without the guides, and sometimes only a leather strop with some rouge. I only use the guides when the edge is no longer usable just by performing a touch up.
     

    rhino

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    The wear does indeed cause a slight angle change, but not enough to be overly concerned about. For any given sharpening session, the angles are consistent. However, from one sharpening to another (given you've used the guides a good bit), there will be a change.

    I buy new guides when the edge is worn down to the point of meeting the other side.

    The attached PDF shows some images of a new guide vs. a worn guide.

    FWIW, it took me more than 15 years to get that much wear on the guide. The new guide is 2 years old. YMMV depending upon how many knives you sharpen, and how often. For touch ups, I use the fine stone without the guides, and sometimes only a leather strop with some rouge. I only use the guides when the edge is no longer usable just by performing a touch up.

    That's good to know!

    Do you like their stones too?

    I'm considering getting one of their kits so I can follow their process exactly.
     

    TJ Kackowski

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    That's good to know!

    Do you like their stones too?

    I'm considering getting one of their kits so I can follow their process exactly.
    I really like the system because it's super simple ... attach the guide to your blade, scrub on a coarse stone creating the relief angle and getting the two sides to meet in the middle, then switch to the fine stone to polish the relief angle and remove any burrs from the coarse stone work. Next, move the guide a bit and work with the fine stone to create the cutting edge. Plus, everything is done dry. All I create is a bunch of dust that is easily vacuumed up or, if I'm working outside, just brushed away.

    You do spend a lot more time on the coarse stone. Raising a burr when working with a new blade can take a while. You can see in the attached PDF that the coarse stone has wallowed out a bit. These are 8" stones that I bought over 15 years ago. I haven't yet turned the coarse stone over to use the fresh side ... maybe in the not too distant future I will. I suppose that the dished side could be made flat again with a surface grinder.

    I only use the 8" stones. I had a set of the smaller stones at first, but found them to be too small, especially for kitchen knives.
     

    Hohn

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    I've spent way more money than I care to admit on different sharpening systems and devices, going back to nearly 30 years ago as a kid who loved blades (I still have my Buck 119 I bought as a teenager).

    I have the Sharpmaker and love it and hate it both.

    Here's the deal with the sharpmaker:
    -- holding the knife vertical as you make the strokes isn't that hard at all. The genius of the system is that holding a knife straight up and down (along line of sight) as far easier and more intuitive that holding the knife at some arbitrary angle of a waterstone or bench stone. The former is MUCH easier to learn.
    -- The "ultrafine" upgrade stones for the Sharpmaker are pretty much mandatory to get a usefully sharp blade. In my experience, the sharpmaker with the standard rods just won't give a very sharp edge, and the included "medium" stones are too fine to do any useful reshaping or rescuing of a damaged edge. If you have a REALLY dull knife, you can spend on hour on the Sharpmaker and finish with a perhaps slightly less dully knife.

    So poor is the cutting performance of the included grey ceramic rods that if I need to really remove material I have to go to my Chosera 1000 grit waterstone. Yes, my 1000 grit Chosera cuts faster than the "medium" grit ceramic rods on the sharpmaker. The chosera also leaves a finish that is superior to the Sharpmakers stock stones. If I had any freehand skill at all, my Chosera would basically replace the sharpmaker, even though it just a single waterstone.

    When you add the "ultrafine" ceramic rods to the Sharpmaker, you get get a much, much more refined and keener edge. This actually does surpass the fineness of the 1k Chosera stone. But, again, the stones do not remove much material and they load up super fast.

    Japanese waterstones IMO are unsurpassed for the combination of speed of cut and smoothness of finish. You can get faster (diamond) or smoother/as smooth (ceramic) but you can't have BOTH fast and smooth like you get with premium waterstones like Naniwa and Shapton.


    Anyway, I'm about to bit the bullet on a full Tormek T8 and such, so I will likely never use my Sharpmaker again.
     

    WhitleyStu

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    Anyway, I'm about to bit the bullet on a full Tormek T8 and such, so I will likely never use my Sharpmaker again.

    You'll love a Tormek. I've had a T7 for over a decade and it has done hundreds of knife blades. When I sell one of the knives that was sharpened on the Tormek the buyers often think the blade still has the factory edge. It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it you can get a great looking edge that is razor sharp.
    u6yWq8T.jpg

    Here is a pic of a Strider SNG and SMF sharpened on the T7...
    rlKYQUt.jpg
     
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