Ammo stored in the cold

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  • ryanmercer

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    With unemployment sky rocketing with lay-offs, and government agencies predicting more attacks in American cities... I've decided I want to keep a firearm in truck at all times regardless if I'm carrying or not. I've got one of those 'safes' that you anchor to the seat with the wire cable...

    My question is though... how well is ammunition going to hold up in the winter temps? Is it going to stay reliable at all? I'm fine cycling it out every few weeks... I just don't have any experience at all with ammunition in the cold.
     

    Wabatuckian

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    The gunpowder is organic, so if anything, I'd think it would benefit from cold storage.

    My concern would be the primer. A lot of these new primers simply are not as hot, and will not ignite well in the cold. I had a lot of trouble with CCI Mini-Mags at 17 deg F, for example. Didn't used to.

    Some of the early WinClean had problems.

    I don't think Wolf and those folks really care about anything except hot ignition, so I'd just get some old school ammo and be happy.

    Josh <><
     

    ryanmercer

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    The gunpowder is organic, so if anything, I'd think it would benefit from cold storage.

    My concern would be the primer. A lot of these new primers simply are not as hot, and will not ignite well in the cold. I had a lot of trouble with CCI Mini-Mags at 17 deg F, for example. Didn't used to.

    Some of the early WinClean had problems.

    I don't think Wolf and those folks really care about anything except hot ignition, so I'd just get some old school ammo and be happy.

    Josh <><

    I was thinking of leaving the the makarov as my emergency truck backup, and as I hope to never use it as my carry piece should suffice... I was just going to put wolf or brown bear in it.

    I suppose I could always leave some of both in a container in the garage for a few days then run over to dons for 15 minutes to see how it handles
     

    Wabatuckian

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    Hell man, the Makarov was made for the cold!

    Put military ammo in it (the Wolf or Brown Bear you speak of will work), don't trim any springs, don't lube it with anything but a #2 pencil, and be happy.

    It'll work if you need it to.

    Josh <><
     

    Disposable Heart

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    +1, most military style or "regular" ammo is GTG in cases of cold. Its when you have non-tox primers and gibberish like that is when you get into issues with cold.

    Also, if keeping it in the car, you may want to consider a grease instead of oil for the slides and such. Some oils will harden in cold and provide little protection. I used to put LAW on my moving parts of my weapons stored in the trunk during the winter, but I cant find it very much anymore.

    Also, if bringing in the weapon from the cold, completely clean it to remove any moisture that can build up to prevent corrosion.
     

    Seancass

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    I wouldn't expect any trouble from cold ammo. I have shot on some stupid cold days (teens plus windchill plus 20mph winds) without any trouble, including cheap pistol and .22 ammo. What about a cold gun in a warmed up truck collecting moisture?(as mentioned above)
     

    indyjoe

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    What about a cold gun in a warmed up truck collecting moisture?(as mentioned above)
    I think that is the bigger problem. Often in the winter, we bring a bunch of moisture in the truck/car in the form of snow. I would put it in a case of some sort, maybe just a soft sided zipper pouch. This would slow the changes in temperature and humidity around the pistol enough to make this a non-issue.
     

    Jay

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    I keep a pistol in the glove box in my truck year round. I bring it inside on weekends and wipe it down, and I've had no ammo/moisture issues in 30 years. In the winter, I use a few drops of Mobil 1.

    It's like anything else relating to firearms.... periodic inspection, and maint will prevent all but the most unique problems.
     

    dburkhead

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    I wouldn't expect any trouble from cold ammo. I have shot on some stupid cold days (teens plus windchill plus 20mph winds) without any trouble, including cheap pistol and .22 ammo. What about a cold gun in a warmed up truck collecting moisture?(as mentioned above)

    Minor nit about the "windchill" comment.

    With something that doesn't produce heat (like a gun that's not being shot at the time) windchill only affects how fast it reaches ambient temperature, not now cold it gets. Windchill is important because human bodies (at least live ones) do generate heat. Fast flowing air causes that heat to be lost faster than still air. The "wind chill temperature" is an equivalence in how fast heat is lost. "Wind chill X in a 20 MPH wind" means that in still air you would lose heat at the same rate at temperature "X." It does not mean that you will actually get that cold. As an example, if the temperature is more than a few degrees above freezing windchill will not lead to frostbite even if the "windchill temperature is well below freezing. (Note: if temperature is close enough to freezing then evaporative cooling can put it over the edge and cause frostbite, but that's a bit different from windchill itself.)

    Incidentally, from a survival point of view, this also means that the better insulated you are, the less effect windchill has in proportion. The rate of heat loss is strongly influenced by the temperature difference between the surface the wind is blowing on and the air in the wind. Better insulation means more difference between inside and outside the insulation and, therefore, less difference between the outer surface of the insulation (exposed to wind) and the air itself. Less heat loss from wind chill. That's why wind chill charts are always listed with "danger of freezing exposed skin."

    Thus, when the temperature is in the teens, after a while the gun and all the wood, plastic, metal, and powder in it will also be in the teens. All windchill does is determine how long "after a while" is.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
     

    dburkhead

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    I think that is the bigger problem. Often in the winter, we bring a bunch of moisture in the truck/car in the form of snow. I would put it in a case of some sort, maybe just a soft sided zipper pouch. This would slow the changes in temperature and humidity around the pistol enough to make this a non-issue.

    A soft sided pouch, being able to absorb moisture and hold it right there next to the gun, may not be a good idea (depending on the pouch itself). An airtight container with a dessicant inside, maybe.

    My own "solution" is more basic: keep the gun well lubricated with a rust preventative. At the same time, you don't want a lubricant that "gums up" and might, therefore, interfere with the action. I personally use Break Free, sprayed on then wiped so that only a thin film is left. Haven't had a problem yet. (Just out of curiosity I stuck one of my handguns so treated in the deep freeze then tried the action, using snap caps, and found it was as smooth as at room temperature. YMMV, of course.)
     

    Old Syko

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    Ammo is affected by temps but only to a minimal extent. As an example 5.56/.223 ammo that has chronoed at 3200fps in 95* temps may only show 3000 to 3100 at 0*. It will still function flawlessly and show no ill effects even after being subjected to such fluctuations such as this. Rule of thumb is if the shooter is able to function comfortable at a certain temp the ammo will also function.

    Heat is a larger concern than cold when ammo is stored in a car in the summer. Ammo that has been loaded on the hot side during normal temps may become quite volatile when stored in a car where temps may reach 130* and higher. Excess temps may raise pressures to a dangerous level. This becomes a major issue when ball powders have been used. BTW condensation becomes a non issue as the gun components change temps at much the same as the ambient temps therefore not causing condensation to be a problem.
     

    ryanmercer

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    My thoughts were a ziplock bag with a little thing of descecant. The gun isn't going to be easy to get to fast as it's already going to be locked in a safe all the time, so a ziplock isn't going to make a life or death difference in retrieving it. I'd also be taking it in at LEAST every weekend. Most likely I"d be taking it out of the truck every DAY. Put it in when I leave for the day, take it out when I know I'm at home for the night so I probably won't even bother with descecant.
     

    ryanmercer

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    A soft sided pouch, being able to absorb moisture and hold it right there next to the gun, may not be a good idea (depending on the pouch itself). An airtight container with a dessicant inside, maybe.

    My own "solution" is more basic: keep the gun well lubricated with a rust preventative. At the same time, you don't want a lubricant that "gums up" and might, therefore, interfere with the action. I personally use Break Free, sprayed on then wiped so that only a thin film is left. Haven't had a problem yet. (Just out of curiosity I stuck one of my handguns so treated in the deep freeze then tried the action, using snap caps, and found it was as smooth as at room temperature. YMMV, of course.)

    Break Free is my lubricant of choice too :)
     

    glock34

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    cold temps

    I just got done watching a reloading video and it was talking about some loads getting hotter as they get colder. he mentioned someone who loaded his rounds for a match and then left then in the truck overnight with cold temps and the loads were so hot because of the change of the burn curve that it damaged the gun. I am sure this is the extreme but I thought it fit the thread. :twocents:
     

    Old Syko

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    I just got done watching a reloading video and it was talking about some loads getting hotter as they get colder. he mentioned someone who loaded his rounds for a match and then left then in the truck overnight with cold temps and the loads were so hot because of the change of the burn curve that it damaged the gun. I am sure this is the extreme but I thought it fit the thread. :twocents:

    Gotta link? I would like to see such a video. I have friends who live in the bush in Alaska that would have a hard time believing it. At -50* it is cold enough they leave some guns in unheated areas in order to keep condensation from forming and freezing the actions during transition from indoors to outdoors yet ammo is not a problem. They also rinse out all lubes with gasoline to avoid lube freeze on these guns.
     

    smokingman

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    I would defiantly not worry about the ammo I think you are good there.The oil is however another matter. I would use graphite though it does nothing to fight the moisture problem.The Russians in world war 2 used to use motor oil cut 50/50 with diesel fuel for extreme temperatures lubrication of firearms.
     

    Chefcook

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    Cold temperatures will not have a detrimental effect on the function of your ammunition. In extreme cold. Velocity and trajectory may be affected, but that is due to the fact that at very cold temperatures the air is denser. Making it more difficult for the projectile to cut threw it. As far as ignition the cold will not hamper your results...JC
     
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