How to deal with neighbor who believes trees are adequate backstop

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  • mom45

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    I need some help. We are at wits end. We have a neighbor who has no respect for property boundaries or safety. My husband and I own 90 acres (purchased mainly because hubby likes to deer hunt) that is mostly wooded. We have several neighbors who hunt near the perimeter of our property, target shoot, etc. This is not an issue. However, we have one neighbor who refuses to practice safe habits and has forced us to call the sheriff and dnr for assistance. We knew there was the potential for this to escalate the situation with him since talking with him directly had a similar result. We attempted to have a conversation with him about building a backstop and making sure he was shooting safely. This is not an easy conversation when you are speaking with a man with a gun in one hand and a beer in the other while his toddler age grandchildren walk around in the back yard where he and other semi-drunk people are shooting into a fire ring surrounded by rocks. Since that chat, this neighbor has hung plywood targets in his trees at head/shoulder height...trees are about 8 inches wide and plywood holding the targets extend approximately a foot beyond that on both sides. These pieces of plywood are riddled with holes and at least one tree looks like the back has exploded out of it behind the target from so many bullets going through the whole tree. Beyond these targets to the west is an area that has some medium sized oak trees and many saplings, an overgrown meadow area and then a neighboring home on the other side of our property. This neighbor is also shooting to the north (toward our home) into another wooded area. In both directions, there are MANY trees with ricochet marks, holes and some holes with slugs embedded in them. The damaged trees extend fairly far into our property and the neighbor is well aware that these trees are on our property as the boundary is now clearly marked with a barbed wire fence after several disagreements over the property line. There is a legal survey and pins are all clearly marked and in place.

    We had the sheriff's department out in late September after these targets appeared and were told there is no law requiring a backstop. They referred us to the DNR since there is tree damage and destruction of property is something they might be able to help us with. DNR officer came out and said he would talk to them about our concerns with safety and the damage to our trees and ask him to erect a backstop. Nothing has changed. Today, they had friends over and decided it was time to do some target shooting. The neighbor to their west was informed of their target set up yesterday while we helped him track a deer he shot that ran into our woods. When the target shooting began, he was out near his tree stand looking for a lost arrow, and called me in a panic. He was trapped behind a tree with bullets whizzing past him on both sides and didn't know what to do. I gave him the number to the sheriff's department. They were on another call and sent the DNR out. DNR talked to him and said they would talk to the neighbor again. They left and an hour or so later, the shooting resumed. My husband also was out in the woods when the shooting initially started and ran for the house after having a few bullets whiz past him. It should be noted that there was approximately 10 acres of property between him and where they were shooting.

    We've been told that until someone gets hurt, there isn't much anyone can do. Is this true? Does it really take someone getting shot to get something done? Should I call the prosecutor and see about destruction of property or criminal recklessness charges or something of that nature? I have a call in to the DNR to get copies of the reports they have on file so far regarding the complaints and am interested to hear what they said to him today. When I tried to get that information today, the officer was not available to take my call.

    This situation has gotten beyond ridiculous and is now interfering with everyone's ability to hunt safely or to even just be out enjoying their own property around him. I know firing back is not a good plan, but I'm just about ready!
     

    mom45

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    I've thought about taking my .45 and shooting up a bunch of boards and hanging them in the trees facing him so he gets the idea of how it feels to think someone is shooting at him, but I am not sure he is smart enough to figure it out.
     

    mrjarrell

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    Well, since the cops and DNR can't do anything you might try consulting with a lawyer. You can sue anyone for anything, but this guy is damaging your property (trees) and endangering you and your neighbour. See what a lawyer says. Lawsuits have a way of motivating people to do the right thing, sometimes.
     

    onetwoonetwo

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    at least start documenting as much of this as possible on video w/ audio as well. times, locations(gps and such)...ect. audio/video can be a good thing to have on your side. start keeping physical records of all this going on.keep a journal with info in it. time and location stamps on your smartphone to match up with calls to 911, DNR and whomever may become involved. good luck and keep your head down until it is safe.
     

    87iroc

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    I'd suggest building a backstop for him on your property line...but he'd probably adjust his aim to ensure he missed the backstop you constructed for him.
    Good luck. I'm curious what those that know more than me say...
     

    mom45

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    I'm trying to avoid the lawyer route but am totally prepared to do that if the sheriff's department/DNR route doesn't change. I worked at a law firm for a while so have access to some good ones if needed. I hate conflict but this guy is really giving us no choice. It's a matter of safety now and safety comes first.
     

    IndyGunworks

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    Number one I am shocked that LEO's cant do anything about someone firing bullets onto your property.

    Number two, I would agree w/ filing a lawsuit. Just the initial letter from the lawyer along may be enough.

    Number three. Start documenting EVERYTHING. in the event that something does happen you will want accurate records. Also, since nothing seems to really be getting done by phone calls, maybe you need to go meet w/ some higher ups either in DNR or law enforcement.
     

    BuckCreek

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    I've thought about taking my .45 and shooting up a bunch of boards and hanging them in the trees facing him so he gets the idea of how it feels to think someone is shooting at him, but I am not sure he is smart enough to figure it out.

    Betty,

    I am no lawyer, but I have had a difficult / problem neighbor before. Nothing as bad as what you describe though. I know you must be at your wits end as to what you should do, but don't stoop to his level. You would not want the consequences if you hit someone on his property or beyond. I would contact a lawyer and the prosecutor. Get written statements from your husband and other neighbor about the incident in the woods as soon as possible. Be safe, and I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this soon.
     

    mom45

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    I like the idea of a journal. I don't have a smart phone but have taken my camera back when I knew he would be at work and not out shooting and clearly documented the targets, the damage to our trees (slugs embedded, ricochet marks, etc.) I am going to get copies of reports filed with the DNR so far as the officer who was out in September assured me he would be building a file in case we needed it. He gave me his card at that time and it had an email so I sent him a message today explaining the events of the day since he was not the officer sent out this time. If we were to build a backstop, he would likely just move his targets to another area and it would cost us a small fortune to pay for the fuel and tractor to pile that much dirt up. He has five acres and I don't intend to have to dig a moat around that, nor should we have to. It has been discussed though! I'd love to put a steel wall around him and see if he likes the way that would ricochet those 9 mm slugs.
     

    Yellowjeep

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    Shoot back toward him with tracer rounds. Or I mean at your new back stop with tracers. Then there will be no doubt he sees them. Or fence in a bunch of pigs or goats behind it. They are cheap. Then when he kills one they have to do something.
     

    mom45

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    If I shot boards, they would be shot BEFORE I hung them as I am not at all interested in shooting anyone. I could easily set them up in front of my backstop and shoot them up before hanging them. I would hope that his reaction would be similar to ours when we first saw his targets and realized he was shooting in the fashion that he is. He had his friends all over there today shooting with him and it was large caliber firearms that were firing in rapid succession. When the neighbor called from his hiding spot behind the tree, the dispatcher asked what the noise was and he told her that was the gunfire and that bullets were whizzing past him!
     

    mom45

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    Shoot back toward him with tracer rounds. Or I mean at your new back stop with tracers. Then there will be no doubt he sees them. Or fence in a bunch of pigs or goats behind it. They are cheap. Then when he kills one they have to do something.

    The neighbor to his west that was dodging bullets today has show horses. I already pointed that out to the shooting neighbor. He's not smart enough to understand the consequences of what he is doing.
     

    USMC-Johnson

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    Do you have a dozer or any land moving device? if not maybe you could clear cut like ten feet on the edge of your property near his house to give him the idea he's just shooting into an unsafe area?

    Other than that i'm not sure...i know if i'm being shot at i'm shooting back to cover my ass getting out of said situation but if you hit someone off your property your probably going to jail for awhile.
     

    mom45

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    We already cleared a road back there so we can drive back and around the perimeter of his property due to feeling unsafe with walking it at times. We figured he could see a truck better than a person. We cleared the driving path at the time we put up the fence to keep his kids and their four wheelers off of our property and to help him understand boundaries when he was shooting deer WAY over on our side and insisting that it was his property. The fence is six inches on our side of the line and the survey markers remain clearly in place and well marked. He shoots all of our no trespassing signs/no hunting signs including the ones hanging on the fence (not just the ones on the trees). We've done everything we can to make things clear for him including having multiple conversations with him. My husband has been way nicer to him than I would have ever been, but he's nicer than me! LOL! He has also run out of patience now and after having to run from his own tree stand today, he is ready to let me do whatever needs to be done and is no longer concerned with making the guy mad.
     
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    mom45

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    You could always have some fun with tannerite. :) That stuff always has a way of getting someones attention.

    That might be what they were shooting later after the DNR left. It sounded like a cannon going off. I was in the house 1/2 mile away with windows/doors closed and heard it loud and clear. Hmmmmm.....
     
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