9mm vs .40, vs .45 ACP new FBI testing (let the fun begin)

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  • STEEL CORE

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    Great article from Police One Magazine by Mike Wood.:popcorn:

    On July 25, 2014, the Federal Bureau of Investigation released a pre-solicitation notice for a family of pistols chambered in 9mm — and in so doing, fanned the embers of “the great debate” over pistol calibers.

    Although it had finally (and thankfully) showed signs of petering out, in a flash, the “9mm versus .45” phoenix — which sold so much ink for the gun press over the years — has risen once again from the ashes. Sigh.

    Some of you may wonder why the FBI solicitation caused such a commotion, and the answer is best summarized in one word: Miami.



    In April of 1986, two FBI Agents were killed and five were wounded (three of them grievously) in a protracted gun battle with two hardcore felons in an unincorporated area of Miami-Dade County (Fla.).

    In the aftermath of this horrific shooting, the FBI determined that the principal adversary had been struck with an FBI 9mm JHP bullet that penetrated his right arm, exited, and then bored into the chest cavity, damaging the lung and coming to rest just short of the heart.

    Although this “non-survivable wound” caused significant damage and blood loss that eventually took its toll, the felon remained active and mobile long enough to kill the two agents and wound at least one more.

    The FBI was unsatisfied with the performance of the bullet, largely — and probably, unfairly — blaming its lack of penetration for the deaths of the agents.

    By the end of the decade, the FBI was leading a migration away from the 9mm toward larger calibers such as the 10mm and its progeny, the .40 S&W. A series of wound ballistics panels hosted by the FBI and the eventual development of the “FBI Protocol” for law enforcement ammunition testing both clearly indicated the FBI’s dissatisfaction with the 9mm ammunition available at the time, so the recent pre-solicitation notice for 9mm pistols seemed like a radical reversal and came as a shock to those familiar with the FBI’s historical aversion.

    Two Flawed Arguments
    There have been a variety of reactions to the announcement, and it’s perhaps inevitable that two longstanding rival camps have leapt to the fore in the newly energized debate.

    While not completely accurate, it’s handy to define these as the “9mm” and “.45” factions. Each group has quickly resumed their age-old talking points, oblivious to the progress of the last three decades.

    Consider power. It’s an article of religion among the “.45 crowd” — loosely named, which also includes fans of other “major caliber” cartridges, such as the .40 S&W — that the 9mm cartridge lacks the mass and energy necessary to provide adequate terminal performance. This group conveniently ignores the incredible progress that has been made in ammunition technology since Miami — largely prompted by the FBI Protocol — and fails to recognize that today’s 9mm ammunition is vastly superior (capable of doing everything that can be reasonably expected from handgun ammunition, regardless of caliber).

    Not to be outdone, the “9mm crowd” continues to beat the capacity drum, ignoring the fact that the advent of wide-body magazines for the .45 ACP — and pistols with good ergonomics to house them — and the development of the .40 S&W cartridge have largely negated the 9mm’s historical advantage in this area.

    Each of these groups is mired in 30-year-old arguments.

    They’re missing the fact that the FBI’s new interest in 9mm pistols is not some kind of traitorous act and neither is it an admission that they made an error in leaving the 9mm behind decades ago.

    The truth is that they’ve conducted an honest evaluation of their requirements and the current state of technology, and found that today’s 9mm answers their needs.

    Join the Club
    The FBI is not alone in this respect. Executives at all the major ammunition companies have confirmed that law enforcement orders for 9mm ammunition have spiked in recent years, and the cartridge is making a serious comeback. Many agencies throughout the United States have recently adopted — or readopted — 9mm pistols, dropping the .40 S&W in the process.

    It’s not that the .40 S&W failed to deliver the terminal performance they wanted. It’s just that the new breed of 9mm ammunition can deliver similar performance without the generally snappier recoil and the accelerated wear (on both pistol and shooter), at a more affordable price. The fact that the new pistols can house more of the cartridges in the same sized gun is an added bonus.

    These agencies have also taken an honest look at the demographics of their personnel, and have accepted the fact that law enforcement officers no longer come in just one size—Large. Instead, there are many officers with smaller hands and shorter fingers who find it difficult to reach the controls on larger caliber pistols with their corresponding larger frames.

    Despite all the ergonomic advances in pistol design of the last three decades, there is no way of getting around the fact that a .45 ACP pistol (and particularly a wide-body .45) is just going to be bigger in the hand and a .40 S&W in a smaller frame is going to recoil more.

    A smaller-frame pistol in a milder shooting caliber allows more officers to achieve the control necessary for good shooting, and makes sense for diverse agencies that want to standardize on a single gun and caliber.

    Proper Focus
    The FBI’s renewed interest in the 9mm doesn’t indicate that other cartridges are less capable or that they are poor choices for law enforcement. The truth is, with modern ammunition, any of the calibers currently in use by law enforcement will do the job — yet none of them will turn a handgun into the Hammer of Thor.

    There will be a lot of ink — and hot air — expended in the coming weeks and months as this latest chapter of the ‘Great Caliber Debate’ unfolds, and while it may be entertaining to watch, we need to keep our priorities in focus.

    Issues of caliber and weapon selection pale in comparison to mindset, tactics, and training. We need to dedicate our extremely limited resources (time, money) to the things that matter the most, and equipment selection is at the very bottom of that list.

    As long as it’s reliable, it doesn’t matter what’s in your holster. What matters is what’s in your mind and your heart. Professionals focus on mindset, tactics, and training.

    Professionals let the amateurs bicker about minute differences in equipment.

    Don’t get distracted by all the noise: stay focused on the right things, and stay safe out there.



    So what say you.............
    dunno.gif
    Me I am sticking with .40 180 gr, but.............would not feel under gunned with a 124 or 147 gr 9MM by my side.:ingo:
     

    PRasko

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    Hollow point tech has come a long way since that incident.

    Shot placement, penetration, and capacity are all that matters in anything 9mm and above. *In my opinion*

    I used to carry .45, then jumped on the .40 bandwagon, but ended up back where I began. 9mm. I can drive it better. That's all.
     

    VERT

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    So wait...does this mean I am still OK carrying a 45? :)

    That was a well reasoned article and worth the read. But it leaves me with another question. Does modern technology make it possible to create a 9mm cartridge that will kill the soul?
     

    Mark-DuCo

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    I'll go ahead and summarize the next 50 pages, "rabble rabble rabble my caliber is best because (insert personal opinion) and all others suck, rabble rabble rabble."
     

    2ADMNLOVER

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    These agencies have also taken an honest look at the demographics of their personnel, and have accepted the fact that law enforcement officers no longer come in just one size—Large. Instead, there are many officers with smaller hands and shorter fingers who find it difficult to reach the controls on larger caliber pistols with their corresponding larger frames.

    The solution isn't in a new caliber , it's stop letting girly men pussies in the FBI .

    So what say you.............
    dunno.gif
    Me I am sticking with .40 180 gr, but.............would not feel under gunned with a 124 or 147 gr 9MM by my side.:ingo:

    I'll keep my 230 grained kiss my ass , in CorBon and HydraShock flavors thank you .
     

    STEEL CORE

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    Yes, 147 Gr Federal 9mm HST and 165 Gr .40 Federal HST , were almost identical in recent FBI protocol testing.
    Still it's 180 Gr .40 for me.
     

    ashby koss

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    Yes, 147 Gr Federal 9mm HST and 165 Gr .40 Federal HST , were almost identical in recent FBI protocol testing.
    Still it's 180 Gr .40 for me.

    I have to agree. I run the short barrel 180 gold dots. I may be switching to the HST next run. I've been liking what I've been seeing in the HST tests.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    There are two acceptable calibers* for True Americans. .45 ACP and .357 magnum. Anything else is wrong, unless the question is "what caliber won't hurt my girly wrists and won't make me look fat in these jeans?"


    *Unless you have a catch phrase, than .44 magnum is also allowable.
     

    ashby koss

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    There are two acceptable calibers* for True Americans. .45 ACP and .357 magnum. Anything else is wrong, unless the question is "what caliber won't hurt my girly wrists and won't make me look fat in these jeans?"


    *Unless you have a catch phrase, than .44 magnum is also allowable.

    I would happily carry my .357 magnum, but the 4" barrel and weight are annoying.
     

    VERT

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    There are two acceptable calibers* for True Americans. .45 ACP and .357 magnum. Anything else is wrong, unless the question is "what caliber won't hurt my girly wrists and won't make me look fat in these jeans?"


    *Unless you have a catch phrase, than .44 magnum is also allowable.

    Rep Nazis won't let me hit you. That is funny right there!
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I just find the G27 easier. Do you have any recomendations for sucha setup?

    Belt: Stitched Bullhide with Finished Back, 1/4" Thick, Black or Brown - Daltech Force

    There's a great review thread for various gunbelts here INGO if you search for it, including this one. I've used one for about 2 years now and am very happy with it.

    Holster, it depends on what style you want. I'm currently using a Galco Speed Paddle for OWB and a Summer Comfort for IWB, but am almost certainly going to pick up a Bladetech since I'm very happy with the one I got for my P220.
     

    Redhorse

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    .357 mag










    :laugh: Sorry, just had to throw that in the mix. I've accepted the world has moved beyond revolvers even if I won't conform myself.
     

    throttletony

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    well if the 9mm got better in the last 3 decades, the .45 must have gotten even betterer

    (purple as needed)

    I love the 357 mag, but like others above, my platform for it is just a bit big (...or I could drop 10 lbs, but that doesn't sound fun)
     
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