Seeking the wisdom of the elders...

[Gun Collector]

New to the site so hope I'm posting this in the correct location. Seeking some wisdom from the elders of the site...

Went up to see my dad recently and was in a gun ship in my old home town. I've purchased several firearms in this shop and probably stop in once a month or so and I vaguely know the owner. Anyway, as I'm browsing the used guns an old gentlemen and his grandson walk into the shop. The old guy is walking with a cane and the younger fella is obviously driving the car for him and helping him out. I notice they are carrying an older shotgun. From the low conversation it is obvious that the older gentlemen is here to sell and is helping out his grandson with some college expenses or some expense that matters to both of them.

Edging closer, they place the gun on the counter. It is a beautiful Remington 11-48 16 ga with high grade factory wood and a full rib barrel. This thing looked like it rolled off the line in Ilion, NY yesterday. As I started to inquire about the gun the guy behind the counter cut me off and asks about the gun. "I might want to sell it" is the comment from the older gentlemen. The guy asks how much and the old guy tells him he paid $175 for it used many years ago but figures it's worth more now. The shop guy looks the gun over and pulls out the calculator and taps the keys on the computer. A minute or so later he lays the gun in front of the older guy and says "Well, this is a 16 ga and we don't get many call for these. Nobody wants 16 ga shotguns much anymore so we will probably have this on the shelf for awhile. I can give you $100.00 tops and that's only because of the condition. Just not many calls for thee anymore."

OK now, I know a little about Remington's and I know some about gun shops, markups and how they make a profit. Used guns are a good money maker for them. But here is a $500-$600 gun and the joker is offering $100? I can see the old guy is disappointed and me? I'm shocked! In fact, I'm quite ticked off that they would offer $100 for something like this. The older guy is quite ticked off and is pushing back on the price.

Not wanting to see the old guy get totally taken, I wait a minute and after some sticky silence, I leaned in and said to the guy behind the counter "As soon as you are done buying this, I'll offer the shop $200 cash for the Remmy". You double your money.

Next thing I know the you-know-what hits the fan. Owner and another guy behind the counter asked me to step outside. I'm guided out the front door. The old guy is selling the gun. The owner advises me that I'm "interfering with a business transaction and a private sale and I need to leave immediately". I said "OK" and that I didn't intend to cause any problems but was making an offer on something you are buying and could double your money on. I was not allowed back inside and was then directed to leave the store//property immediately and was told not to come back, period.

So my question: Was I wrong to push this issue? Or should I have ignored the whole thing and walked away. On one hand the old guy should have done his homework before selling but on the other, the action by the dealer only reinforces my suspicion of how the local LGS operates. A friend of mine saw the gun the next day priced at $650.00

 

[IndyDave1776]

I wouldn't call myself an 'elder' but it seems that calling out this piece of s**t openly is in order. I doubt that any of us would want to do business with someone who acts like that.

 

[Leo]

If the customers that normally come to the shop will not buy it, the shotgun has no value for him. Not everything "collectable" or has a "high book" price is a quick sale. If I have to invest 20 hours and transfer fees to sell something, it is usually not worth it. I spent 3 years trying to sell a pigeon grade model 12, that looked like new and never did get the money I was supposed to out of it, I ended up selling about $2000 short of the book. And that gun was a 12 gauge, if it was a 16, it would still be in the safe. Most of the people that buy Model 12's are long gone.

In this example, how many people these days are buying 16 gauge guns? I'll bet if we took a survey, only about 2 in a hundred INGO posters even have a 16 gauge, and of those that do, 90% did not purchase it in the last 5 years. Times change, and some really beautiful stuff gets left behind.

I GAVE away a Browning sweet 16 in nice shape to a young man that really wanted one because his grandfather had one, but the kid had no money. Better than my widow getting $20 for it from a pawn shop when I croak.

I do think the original poster was wrong to jump in the negotiations in another man's shop. I might have followed the guy out later, but not inside the man's store.

 

[Leadeye]

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

That said, the shop owner really should not be taking advantage of somebody like that.

 

[halfmileharry]

I want the name of the shop so I don't ever do business with them.

 

[churchmouse]

I want the name of the shop so I don't ever do business with them.

Me to. PM me the store name location please.
This is the very reason I have eliminated a few of the LGS's I used to frequent.

Myself, I would have told the guy to meet me outside and I would have bought it. What it the owner going to do......beat me up...........Ha.

 

[Arm America]

I'm glad you stepped in. Your offer was a fair offer, maybe the older fella decided to pass until he has a chance to check value. We all know it's a business to make a profit. I wonder (not really) if the older guy dropped a twenty on the way out, would the clerk pocket it, put it the drawer or bring it to the older fella's attention.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If the customers that normally come to the shop will not buy it, the shotgun has no value for him. Not everything "collectable" or has a "high book" price is a quick sale. If I have to invest 20 hours and transfer fees to sell something, it is usually not worth it. I spent 3 years trying to sell a pigeon grade model 12, that looked like new and never did get the money I was supposed to out of it, I ended up selling about $2000 short of the book. And that gun was a 12 gauge, if it was a 16, it would still be in the safe. Most of the people that buy Model 12's are long gone.

In this example, how many people these days are buying 16 gauge guns? I'll bet if we took a survey, only about 2 in a hundred INGO posters even have a 16 gauge, and of those that do, 90% did not purchase it in the last 5 years. Times change, and some really beautiful stuff gets left behind.

I GAVE away a Browning sweet 16 in nice shape to a young man that really wanted one because his grandfather had one, but the kid had no money. Better than my widow getting $20 for it from a pawn shop when I croak.

I do think the original poster was wrong to jump in the negotiations in another man's shop. I might have followed the guy out later, but not inside the man's store.

He was wrong to offer the shopkeeper to buy it at double the money the shop was paying?

 

[pudly]

Please post the shop name. I understand he is in business to make money, but that was simply taking advantage of the vulnerable and ignorant. Not someone I want to do business with.

 

[Bradsknives]

1. You never try and conduct business with a third party in someone else's establishment. The owner has every right to ask you to leave and not come back.

2. You stated that the gun was worth $500 to $600, but yet you only offered him $200. I don't see your offer being a fair offer, and I would say as far as ethics/fairness go, you're not much better than the gun shop.

 

[trucker777]

I once got booted out of a pawn shop for offering a guy to buy his guitar from him at a better price than what the pawn broker had just offered him. Pawn broker took great offence to our conversation and asked me to leave the premises immediately. So I did. Thankfully after a long while and many moons they forgot me and I still stop in that shop once in awhile. Lesson learned.

 

[Markus]

1. You never try and conduct business with a third party in someone else's establishment. The owner has every right to ask you to leave and not come back

I think you missed the part where he made his offer to the "Gun Shop" and not the man selling the gun...

 

[mikefraz]

1. You never try and conduct business with a third party in someone else's establishment. The owner has every right to ask you to leave and not come back.

2. You stated that the gun was worth $500 to $600, but yet you only offered him $200. I don't see your offer being a fair offer, and I would say as far as ethics/fairness go, you're not much better than the gun shop.

I thought the exact same thing.
Pot, meet kettle.

 

[M67]

Have you checked the prices of 16ga 11-48s on gunbroker? Anywhere from $150-$400. They don't get much call for 16 gauge shotguns. It's only worth what someone will pay for it and maybe they might sit on the gun for a long time. Their offer was based on what they thought they could sell it for or how long they thought they would sit on it. Personally speaking, it's the shop's business and the shop's money and until they said they weren't interested or passed on the shotgun, I wouldn't have said anything cause it's not my place to. If the store bought it and you pulled one of the guys aside and said that....to me....that's acceptable.

 

[trucker777]

I think you missed the part where he made his offer to the "Gun Shop" and not the man selling the gun...

I think it best to save face and keep nose completely out of others business entirely. Shop owner has every right to choose at what prices he buys and sells things. If you want to buy used firearms at less than fair prices then feel free to open your own shop. Life isn't fair, prices aren't always fair either...

 

[Markus]

I think it best to save face and keep nose completely out of others business entirely. Shop owner has every right to choose at what prices he buys and sells things. If you want to buy used firearms at less than fair prices then feel free to open your own shop. Life isn't fair, prices aren't always fair either...

I don't disagree at all. I got the impression that "Bradsknives" thought he made the offer to the gentleman selling the gun and not the shop.

 

[trucker777]

I don't disagree at all. I got the impression that "Bradsknives" thought he made the offer to the gentleman selling the gun and not the shop.

That's possible, either way it's uncooth in my opinion.

 

[trucker777]

I think the appropriate course of action would've been (after observing the completed transaction), then tell the shop that you were "interested". Then see what they say.

 

[Bradsknives]

I think you missed the part where he made his offer to the "Gun Shop" and not the man selling the gun...

You are corrected, I misread who his offer was to, but I still stand by both of my points even though the first one doesn't apply to this case.

 

[Cameramonkey]

You are corrected, I misread who his offer was to, but I still stand by both of my points even though the first one doesn't apply to this case.

And I bet the owner probably did the same if we wasnt close enough to hear the exchange clearly. He probably assumed OP was trying to cut the shop out of the deal. Otherwise I think they overreacted.

But for fun, email pics of your next few purchases to them. "Hey, remember me? The guy you kicked out of your store? Since I'm not allowed back I had to give someone else my business. See!"

If I really wanted it, I might have quietly said to the gentleman "I can offer you more for that than they can. I'll be outside if you are interested in talking." and immediately walked out.