A gun for deer

[dburkhead]

(With apologies to the late L. Sprague deCamp)

I have been reading the 2007 hunters guide for Indiana and, unless I'm missing something it looks like the only non-muzzleloader firearm allowed for deer hunting is a shotgun loaded with solid slugs. When I was growing up in Ohio my stepfather did a lot of hunting and Ohio had the same firearm restriction.

My question is, why? What is the rationale for not permitting rifles or buckshot (after all, the very name, "buckshot," kind of suggests deer hunting).

For squirrel "any equipment and ammunition" is allowed (although I would probably recommend leaving the Barret .50 at home). The bit on rabbit doesn't say. For frogs, only a .22 with shot shells (probably wouldn't want to use more anyway). And so on.

Most of the restrictions that I see make sense, but I don't see the sense behind that restriction for deer.

 

[bwframe]

Didn't they pass a new rule that now allows rifles cambered in the approved handgun calibers?

 

[dburkhead]

Ah, now that you mention it, I do remember seeing that (thus falling into the "unless I'm missing something" disclaimer above).

The question still remains: why these particular restrictions?

I mean, I could sort of see if centerfire rifles were generally dangerous at too high a range to be safe in country like that found in Indiana, but if that were so why not a general ban on such rifles for hunting. I could legally, so it seems, hunt squirrel, but not deer, with an M-1 Garand or even the Barrett .50 sniper rifle that I joked about above.

 

[bigcraig]

1) You need to read up on the new hunting regs for IN, there has been a recent change that allows some centerfire rounds, mostly pistol caliber rounds but there are a few wildcats like the .458 SOCOM round that is legal. Just keep doing your research.

2) Buckshot is a very poor performing choice when trying to engage deer at distance.

If I were to take up deer hunting, again, I would build me an upper for one of my AR's in .458 SOCOM.

 

[melensdad]

The new regulations allow RIFLES that are chambered for PISTOL cartridges.

Pistol cartridges legal for deer hunting in Indaina are defined as:

a) fire a bullet of .357 diameter or larger;
b) have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
c) have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches​

.

The 458 Socom is LEGAL in Indiana. The 450 Bushmaster is ILLEGAL, also illegal is the 50 Beowulf. There are some new wildcats that are being developed specifically for Indiana hunters, one I know of is already being produced in the form of AR15 uppers using a slightly shortened WSSM case that is necked up to 357. The 357 WSSM will shoot flatter and at higher velocity than the 458 Socom, but here in Indiana it is seldom necessary to take long range shots at deer. Heck they come right up to the house, you can almost bonk them on the head with the butt of our gun!

 

[Legba]

IMO Using buckshot on deer is bad due to many deer would only be wounded and not killed. Not a humane way of doing it. Last week I took my nephew to a hunter education class so he could get his certificate so he could hunt this year. I asked the instructor (who is a DNR officer) why the state of Indiana would not allow high power rifles for deer hunting when I'm allowed to hunt coyote with mine. The answer was due the distance the bullet could travel. He didnt have an explanation for the use of rifles on other game.

 

[pierce195]

I was told that no high powered rifles becasue of the greater number of hunters out during deer season. When hunting yokes, there is not the high of number of hunters in a limited area. I know last year there were only me and my friend in the woods we hunt, but I heard a lot of shots in the area.

 

[Legba]

I was told that no high powered rifles becasue of the greater number of hunters out during deer season. When hunting yokes, there is not the high of number of hunters in a limited area. I know last year there were only me and my friend in the woods we hunt, but I heard a lot of shots in the area.

That makes sense. I always try to hunt coyote in certain areas before and after shot gun season to cut down on the traffic and out of respect.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ah, yes, IDNR's magic bullet theory. When shooting up into trees at squirrels or at coyotes a .270 will turn into harmless pixie dust if it misses its mark. That same bullet will travel 38.7 miles and go through, multiple times, a school of children, women and minorities if that .270 is launched at a deer. Moronic.

The Pennsylvania study that was released recently destroys IDNR's alleged rational basis for this moronic no-centerfire rifles (in regular season) for deer. Indiana's prohibition on centerfire rifles for deer is moronic and does not survive a straight face test.

 

[Legba]

Ah, yes, IDNR's magic bullet theory. When shooting up into trees at squirrels or at coyotes a .270 will turn into harmless pixie dust if it misses its mark. That same bullet will travel 38.7 miles and go through, multiple times, a school of children, women and minorities if that .270 is launched at a deer. Moronic.

The Pennsylvania study that was released recently destroys IDNR's alleged rational basis for this moronic no-centerfire rifles (in regular season) for deer. Indiana's prohibition on centerfire rifles for deer is moronic and does not survive a straight face test.

I take it you never had to hunt State ground.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Leg, I think that's an argument for more, longer and more intense hunter education.

Or, a requirement one must possess fewer than 6 toes and have more than 3 teeth to purchase a firearm. (Kidding!).

 

[Legba]

Who told you about my 6th toe?

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Kirk, with all due respect, please dont ask the state to include logic in their decision making process. Things take long enough already. This is a great thread that has been a question in my mind for years. I thought 30-30 was a nice squirrel round, damn shame its no good for deer.

 

[bwframe]

Kirk, with all due respect, please dont ask the state to include logic in their decision making process.

What, you mean like raising license fees to a level way beyond making it worthwhile to hunt for food? The explanation was that we need to keep up with our neighboring (tax loving liberal) states.

Or possibly the elimination of lifetime licenses.

Or maybe, in a foolish effort to promote youth hunting, allowing .410 slugs to be used. Now we must contend with a whole bunch of 8-10 year olds shooting at deer, after a practice session of 1 or 2 shots.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What was I thinking, SLJ? You're right, logic has no place within the bounds of government.

 

[in625shooter]

I too don't understand the state on this. However, .I am sort of on the fence. While I understand that the new sabot rounds and rifled barrels are heads and tails above the old school way. Some of these people that flood the woods (especally ones from urban areas) scare me with just a sling shot . With the amount of houses or subdivisions at tha places I hunted 25 years ago as a kid I say you allow limited caliber rifles like 30/30, 35 REM, 444 and 450 Marlin, 45-70 etc. They have similar ballistics (maybe a tad better) than the new sabot rounds etc. So you coul d use a rifle without the state saying it was too much gun if the ballistics (primarily the range the round go's is what I am getting at) are close to the same.

 

[melensdad]

. . . I say you allow limited caliber rifles like 30/30, 35 REM, 444 and 450 Marlin, 45-70 etc. They have similar ballistics (maybe a tad better) than the new sabot rounds etc. So you coul d use a rifle without the state saying it was too much gun if the ballistics (primarily the range the round go's is what I am getting at) are close to the same.

With the new 'handgun' bullet regulations, you can use rounds that are ballistically equivalent to the 45-70 and even better. The 458 Socom round is ballistically a near twin to the 45-70. There are other short fat factory rounds that are also legal.

The new regulations also open up a whole world of 'wildcat' chamberings based on short fat cartridges that throw heavy bullets of at least 357 diameter. Take any of the Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM) cartridges and trim the case back just a little bit, open the throat up and stuff in your favorite bullet and you have a high velocity modern bottleneck cartridge that will easily exceed the ballistics of the old 30-30 and will probably exceed a 308 Win for the first couple hundred yards (but the BC of the bullet will slow the projectile down rapidly compared to a 308 as distances become longer)

 

[in625shooter]

With the new 'handgun' bullet regulations, you can use rounds that are ballistically equivalent to the 45-70 and even better. The 458 Socom round is ballistically a near twin to the 45-70. There are other short fat factory rounds that are also legal.

The new regulations also open up a whole world of 'wildcat' chamberings based on short fat cartridges that throw heavy bullets of at least 357 diameter. Take any of the Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM) cartridges and trim the case back just a little bit, open the throat up and stuff in your favorite bullet and you have a high velocity modern bottleneck cartridge that will easily exceed the ballistics of the old 30-30 and will probably exceed a 308 Win for the first couple hundred yards (but the BC of the bullet will slow the projectile down rapidly compared to a 308 as distances become longer)

I understand all about wildcats and BC etc. Why I would like chambering like 30/3o 45-70 etc. They are sually always availiable at most stores that sell ammo (Walmart, Gandr MTN, Rural King etc) And they have been proven deer rounds for 100 + years with the same balistics. So really if they were alowed everyone wins. The folks that like wildcats can keep or expand on some of theirs and those that like to buy off the shelf!

 

[melensdad]

Well there are some factory chamberings that are now legal, but they are not going to be found in wide distribution. 458 Socom is specifically mentioned in the new regs as legal and that is not a wildcat, it can be found in the bigger gun/ammo retailers.

 

[kludge]

I've been toying with the idea of modifying a Mini-30 and necking up the 7.62x39mm to a .35x39.

There are a lot of great bullet available in .35 caliber (.358 diameter) but it would probably cost more than it's worth though. And the company that did the conversions, no longer does them.

I specifically want something for a semi-auto rifle. A 10mm Magnum would work too, but good luck with that.