.380 in a 9mmM?

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Just had a terse discussion with "Bubba". Bub told me his FEG pa61 was a .380. Visual inspection showed 9mmM on the slide. Bubba claims it's perfectly fine to run .380 through it. Any thoughts on this?
Sign me,
Missouri Joe.

 

[pudly]

Just did a little research. Apparently, the FEG PA-61 is a .380 (9x17mm/9mm Kurtz/9mm Short) firearm. If you are going to fire it and are unsure, I'd suggest some fit testing using .380 or 9mm Luger (9x19mm) ammo. It should be obvious from the magazine and if you manually chamber a round how it fits. The FEG PA-63 is more common and is a 9mm Makarov (9x18mm) firearm.

.380 will fit in a 9mm Luger handgun, but won't work reliably. I wouldn't want to try firing a magazine quickly.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Does Bubba think the difference between gasoline and diesel fuel is a myth?

 

[NHT3]

I can tell you that 380s will work for malfunction drills in a 9MM Glock or M&P. (not recommended by yours truly but I've seen it done, YMMV) and we had a 9MM HiPoint at the range that would function normally with mix of 9 MM and 380 ammo, even staying open on the last shot with the 380. Go figure, something that a HiPoint does better than a Glock or M&P? I know, the HiPoint fanboys are going to be up my rear but just reporting what I've observed.

Certified Glock & M&P armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[M67]

9mm Mak is 9x18 with a diameter of .365

.380 acp is 9x17 with a diameter of .355

I could see it working but probably ruins accuracy and blow brass.

Works yes, maybe; but probably not completely fine

 

[VERT]

Lady I worked with brought a .380 Glock 42 to the range and had nothing but trouble. About a month later she was shooting her Glock again and this time it was running pretty good. Finally it malfunctioned again. I thought no big deal just another damn .380. Then I noticed her struggling with the malfunction and further noticed some funny bulged brass on the ground. Apparently she grabbed her husbands Glock 43 out of the safe on accident. So a Glock 43 will function with .380 cartridges. In this test group of two guns the G43 did as well with .380 cartridges as the G42.

 

[VERT]

9mm Mak is 9x18 with a diameter of .365

.380 acp is 9x17 with a diameter of .355

I could see it working but probably ruins accuracy and blow brass.

Works yes, maybe; but probably not completely fine

I know a guy in college that fire a metric buttload of 9mm (9x19) out of a 9mm largo chambered pistol. Not our brightest hour.

 

[M67]

I know a guy in college that fire a metric buttload of 9mm (9x19) out of a 9mm largo chambered pistol. Not our brightest hour.

Ha, I've seen a Makarov chamber a 9mm Luger and fire. Barrel split and locked the gun up, slide couldn't move back even an 1/8th of an inch

 

[VERT]

Ha, I've seen a Makarov chamber a 9mm Luger and fire. Barrel split and locked the gun up, slide couldn't move back even an 1/8th of an inch

Chambering would be possible depending on the profile of the bullet. Sounds like it rammed the bullet into the barrel resulting in a lot of pressure.

9mm largo is 9x21 if memory serves. Problem there is the cartridge is only held in place by the extractor.

 

[M67]

9mm largo is 9x21 if memory serves. Problem there is the cartridge is only held in place by the extractor.

Thought they were 9x23?

 

[VERT]

Thought they were 9x23?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Largo

You would be correct! Been over 20 years since I seen that old gun. I believe it was a Star pistol out of Spain. His dad was a home FFL and they were always picking up cheap surplus stuff. I hate to guess what might be buried on that farm.

 

[Bigtanker]

Demolition Ranch did a video on this a while back.

[video=youtube_share;lkJuu7rwNEc]http://youtu.be/lkJuu7rwNEc[/video]

Also found this.
[video=youtube_share;KBDycno-SFE]http://youtu.be/KBDycno-SFE[/video]

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I've seen PA61's advertised on Gunbroker as .380s, but this specimen clearly stated 9mmM. To me that says 9x18 Makarov. No?


I've got a few boxes of the 9x18 at the house. I just don't think it's a good idea to play mix and match with live rounds, and Bubba seemed to indicate that he'd done just that. That, along with his general bearing, use of language, [Don't get me wrong, I've got a mouth like a sewer, but I do attempt to display some discretion, and Bubba did not know me.] and the Phillips head machine screw and hex nut holding the grips on convinced me to pass on it.

 

[thunderchicken]

I never owned a 9mm for longer than 2 weeks but it I never realized how many variations of 9mm cartridges are out there. This thread made me curious. Since I do have a .380 for my wife, I went and looked. I have some S&B .380 ammo that is labeled on the box as .380 acp/9mm Browning court. Never noticed it before & thought heck I never even heard of that.

 

[pudly]

Oh, there are more names than that. Unfortunately, cartridge naming is a mixture of different languages, measurement units (inches vs. mm), brands, etc. etc. .380 and 9mm Luger are two of the worst when it comes to multiple names. When we hear 9mm, we generally think of 9mm Luger, but as this thread shows, there are actually multiple physical 9mm-wide rounds, each of which has multiple names.

At first I thought the 9mmM that the OP mentioned was a simple typo. Easy enough to do. However, he's repeated it, so I'm not at all sure. I'm still thinking it is actually a .380 (9x17) based on some references that I've seen online, but he may be right that it is a Makarov (9x18). I'd want to see all the markings to be more confident.

 

[crispy]

First of all, FEG made a PA-63 and a R61. I think the friend was mixing up his model names.

Both were made in 9x17 (.380) and 9x18 (Makarov) so no way to narrow it down there. 9mmM does mean Makarov.

See the third pic on this page. Note: The example reported was re-barreled to .380 acp by FEG, and marked "9mm short" on the bolt. Some R61 pistols can be found re-barreled to .380ACP by others than the FEG factory. These conversions are not marked, so verify proper chambering before firing.

So check the bolt.

http://www.hungariae.com/FegR61.htm

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Crispy is correct. It was an R 61. My mistake.

 

[bobzilla]

don't have this problem with a .45. Just sayin'.... lol

 

[Tactically Fat]

Also note that one can "easily" change the barrels on these guns - and the slide can say something different than what the barrel is.

A slug test would be the only true way to tell, me thinks.

 

[BugI02]

don't have this problem with a .45. Just sayin'.... lol

.45 GAP ( 1.070 OAL vs .45ACP's 1.275 )