9mm shot shell test

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

I have been loading my home defense 9mms with shot shells.
I loaded the first, third and fifth with shot and a defense round second, forth, and sixth.
I figured that even though my first shot might not be exactly on.
I would disrupt the intruder enough to better place my second shot.
I used them on a IDPA type course.
I was using a Stroeger Cougar with a 2 inch barrel.
The target was at about 30 foot.
That is about twice as far I would be around my home.
I would estimate there are about 30 pellets in the 9mm round.
I was shooting at the regular IDPA silhouettes.
When we examined the targets.
There was an average of about 6 hits.
All the hits were about 1/32 wide and about 3/32 long.
The report was loader than regular round, recoil was lighter.
MAJOR problem there was not enough power to cycle the action completely.
All double feeds.
I think limiting them to a revolver.

 

[Hkindiana]

I have had good luck with 9mm shot in autos by using a weaker recoil spring. However, I would not mix ball and shot, because the weak recoil soring woukd not be a goid idea for full power rounds.

 

[dudley0]

I would not load shot in a pistol for HD... fun plinking or maybe varmint control in an enclosed area, but never for home or self defense.

 

[Tactically Fat]

With modern defensive ammunition, especially in 9mm, there is zero need to stagger rounds.

Invest in quality SD rounds and be done with the nonsense.

Invest in QUALITY TRAINING and be done with the nonsense.

 

[nipprdog]

I would not load shot in a pistol for HD..

Worth repeating.

 

[Hkindiana]

Bird shot is just THAT, good for birds, varmits, and playing. I would NEVER use it for home defense - you MIGHT put an eye out, but you WILL just make the shootee (is that a word?) angry

 

[bubbazap]

Spend the extra money for a quality 9mm defensive round. Well worth the money

 

[Bigtanker]

I'll be frank. Don't do this. Bird shot at @10 feet out of a 12 gauge, maybe. But not out of a 9mm. I doubt those pellets would get to 3 inches of penetration in flesh. Who's to stay you'll get a second shot. You may only have one chance if he's armed also.

And as stated several times about, there is no need to stager rounds.

 

[dudley0]

But not out of a 9mm. I doubt those pellets would get to 3 inches of penetration in flesh.

But eye shots....

 

[AngryRooster]

But eye shots....

This ^^^

Remember the great words of wisdom spoken a while back.

M&P Compact 22. 11 rounds in your face in 2 seconds. Stops em every time! Cheap to practice with. We don't live in Kabul and you will never do anything with your carry gun except kill paper. I live in reality not a fictional war zone.

An ear canal shot will be just fine.


In all seriousness, don't use shot as a defensive round.

 

[Psode27]

No offense intended, but even "if" they were to penetrate as intended, what does the spread in a typical HD scenario get you? I ask because I don't know... I would guess maybe a couple inches? I'm guessing you can shoot "minute of doorway".
I think even a poorly placed initial shot of good SD ammo would be better than a center mass shot of 9mm shot. Not worth it IMO.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

let me ask you this!
what does a person do if a BEE stings them.
They are distracted and temperarly stop what hey are about to do.
An very quick off placement shot could distract the offender.
That would let me place my next round which is a HD center mass.
Now everyone is a Anny Okley of Matt Dillon.
Not everyone can hit center mass on their first shot in every Situation.
I never thought that a tiny pellet would be a fatal shot.
IT WILL DO HARM.

But that is your choice.
I never mention that you should what I wrote about.
I just gave my Evaluation and Opinion.

 

[jsharmon7]

A bee sting? Someone is in your home trying to kill you and you're trying to distract them with a bee sting? As stated above, get some quality training. Based solely on this thread, it would appear you don't understand the reality of a gunfight.

 

[AngryRooster]

let me ask you this!
what does a person do if a BEE stings them.
They are distracted and temperarly stop what hey are about to do.
An very quick off placement shot could distract the offender.
That would let me place my next round which is a HD center mass.
Now everyone is a Anny Okley of Matt Dillon.
Not everyone can hit center mass on their first shot in every Situation.
I never thought that a tiny pellet would be a fatal shot.
IT WILL DO HARM.

But that is your choice.
I never mention that you should what I wrote about.
I just gave my Evaluation and Opinion.

Most people smack the out of the bee....just sayin.


If you think someone is going to be 'distracted' and stand still while you try to line up a second shot, you are wrong.

 

[dudley0]

OP, run a few tests on your theory. See what happens to some inanimate objects. Then do a little research on the cause and effect of pistol rounds. maybe do a search on someone like DocGKR and see what he thinks about it. He is an authority on the subject.

Depending on where you are you could seek out others with different opinions and firearms and maybe have a get together.

Don't get angry because I feel your shot idea is bad... prove me wrong. I will admit to it, but I honestly do not see that happening in this case. If you are anywhere close to me I would be cool with heading to the range for some testing... I love any excuse to shoot stuff.

 

[AngryRooster]

Watch ANY self defense shooting on youtube and tell me when you find one where the guy getting shot at stops, stands still and waits on the second shot to come.

You can't out draw a drawn gun. Assess, plan, wait for your moment.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

let me ask you this!
what does a person do if a BEE stings them.
They are distracted and temperarly stop what hey are about to do.

Do you suppose the sound of a gunshot in an enclosed space might just distract someone?

Look, here's the deal. You can win a lot of gunfights with a starter pistol. The noise and flash will convince them to be somewhere else if they aren't real dedicated to causing you harm. Those folks are going to run at the first shot, and they may or may not panic fire in your direction as they run, but run they will.

The next group of people are dedicated to harming you. Two guys arguing, each on their respective porch. Guy A shoots Guy B in the gut. Guy B then comes over, kicks the door to Guy A's house in and beats him unconscious. Then he went home and called 911 to report he'd been shot. How much effect do you think rat shot would have?

Load some quality hollowpoints and call it a day.

 

[oldpink]

Spike, I have to tell you that no one is trying to be condescending about your idea, only incredulous.
1) Shot out of a handgun will not decisively end a home invasion, and you just might make it worse than not shooting at all when the intruder shoots you and yoru whole family out of anger.
2) Shot loads introduce another unwanted variable: questionable feed reliability and may not even properly cycle the slide
3) Bird shot will spread out much too rapidly and move too slowly out of a short, rifled handgun barrel.
4) It sounds as if you need to overcome your natural human squeamishness about using a proper round that will incapacitate and likely kill the intruder, under the misguided belief that it should be sufficient to "scare" away the intruder with a less lethal type of payload.

Seriously, the situation for top quality self-defense handgun ammo has never been better, with the likes of Speer Gold Dot, Barnex Tac-X, and Federal HST that all provide the best terminal performance possible from the limited muzzle velocity that a handgun can muster.
If you really want to use bird shot for the very close ranges typically involved with home defense, the only acceptable way is out of either a 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun, which would instantly incapacitate any intruder with a full charge properly placed out to the ~20' max typically involded in these situations.
However, the only acceptable shotshell for home defense if shooting beyond the confines of your four walls would be one loaded with buckshot.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If you really want to use bird shot for the very close ranges typically involved with home defense, the only acceptable way is out of either a 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun, which would instantly incapacitate any intruder with a full charge properly placed out to the ~20' max typically involded in these situations.

Nope. I've talked to a lot of folks who took bird shot loads at very close distances, like powder marks on their clothing and skin close distances. They were not incapacitated in the slightest, although it looked like it stung. It often looks like a crazy connect the dot puzzle on the x-ray, but the pellets are very close to the surface, even with those real close shots.

I'm no fan of youtube ballistic tests, and clear gel usually allows more penetration than FBI spec gel and what you see in living tissue. So, keeping in mind this is about the best possible scenario for penetration:

[video=youtube;T26cV_M_oAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26cV_M_oAE&feature=youtu.be[/video]

While this shot could very well prove fatal from eventual blood loss or infection, it's gonna be slow to incapacitate.

 

[AngryRooster]

It probably hurts, but he's still standing to fight again...or continue on to kill you right then and there. Needless to say, this isn't 9mm shot.

Graphic.
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=2f75544cb7120c1ea563c76e49dbc1ce&oe=5922D60B