Shameless request for assistance

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  • Rarejewell

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2015
    251
    28
    Metro Indy
    I am a grad student at IUPUI working on a paper for one of my classes. My topic is campus carry for PUBLIC colleges and universities (in favor of). I am have selected 3 arguments against campus carry (required for the paper)
    More guns on campus will increase violent crime
    Good guys with guns do not stop bad guys with guns
    Let the professionals handle it
    I have rebuttals for the anti viewpoint
    I also have my major argument for (my right to carry per the Indiana and US constitutions, self-protection, etc.).

    Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for arguments that are listed above? I have my IC codes for colleges and universities to disallow firearms (school policy vs. law). I also have the "no duty to protect" from SCOTUS. Anyone willing to provide additional information suggestions, ideas, etc., facts/figures that I may have missed? (Using CDC stats and some others).

    Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

    Thank-you!

     

    AngryRooster

    Master
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    18   0   0
    Apr 27, 2008
    4,591
    119
    Outside the coup
    IF you have the option I would dump the "more guns on campus will increase violent crime" argument and replace it with 'more guns on campus could lead to more guns in the hands of criminals via theft.' It gets rid of the BS argument of "violent crime" and places the blame on the actual criminal (for stealing them) while remaining a negative.
     

    Rarejewell

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2015
    251
    28
    Metro Indy
    IF you have the option I would dump the "more guns on campus will increase violent crime" argument and replace it with 'more guns on campus could lead to more guns in the hands of criminals via theft.' It gets rid of the BS argument of "violent crime" and places the blame on the actual criminal (for stealing them) while remaining a negative.

    That is one of the major arguments that I have found and it is hard to change it because of the of students the students that attend class on campus vs. those that live on campus. There is a large difference. But I appreciate the input and suggestion.
     

    MohawkSlim

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 11, 2015
    992
    28
    15th Street, Bedford
    Are you looking for anti-gun arguments or pro-gun rebuttals to the anti-gun arguments you've listed?

    Either way, the hip new one I keep hearing about is how the brain doesn't fully form until 26 years old or so. "Kids" can't handle guns at school because they're not fully grown. (Nevermind the fact "kids" can fight wars no problem.)
     

    Rarejewell

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2015
    251
    28
    Metro Indy
    Are you looking for anti-gun arguments or pro-gun rebuttals to the anti-gun arguments you've listed?

    Either way, the hip new one I keep hearing about is how the brain doesn't fully form until 26 years old or so. "Kids" can't handle guns at school because they're not fully grown. (Nevermind the fact "kids" can fight wars no problem.)

    Either or. As any assistance is appreciated. I just have to be able to back up any arguments that I have with documentation (laws, court decisions, journal articles, news reports, etc.) I have to tie the arguments into the larger topic of individual rights vs. public safety.
     

    MohawkSlim

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 11, 2015
    992
    28
    15th Street, Bedford
    I did a position piece on this in high school. Had to take an anti stance on whichever topic we chose. I painted Bernie Goetz as the biggest monster ever. This was pre-Columbine, VA Tech, Sandy Hook, etc. so there wasn't a lot to go on as far as big time public shootings. The basic premise was an untrained, non-cop civilian was dangerous with a gun. Especially when he's super racist too.

    The three points you've outlined should be easy enough to document how little training is required, how many accidents and intentional shootings happen and how few times there are that civilians stop crime. You'll have to completely ignore all Lott's numbers but Moms Coalition should be more than accommodating.
     

    Rarejewell

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2015
    251
    28
    Metro Indy
    I have CDC stats along with bureau of the Justice stats. I also have articles from College police chiefs association and several other articles. Some draw some really stupid conclusions that I just can't even believe they put in the articles. Such as those who have experienced violence (threats or actual violent acts) are more likely to carry a gun. Well duh, they don't want to be violated again so they are protecting themselves.

    I also have the Moms demand action website and the students for campus carry website. They are both able to provide additional information. stats, comments, quotes, etc.
     

    VERT

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Jan 4, 2009
    9,801
    113
    Seymour
    Look up newsletters from RangeMaster. Tom Givens is the author and posts on these boards in the training forum. He has written a few pieces recently about active shooters and gun free zones. Your TA or Prof might not like the source but Tom is a recognized authority on such topics.

    You might also scoure around GunSite, RangeMaster and Thunder Ranch websites and Facebook. They often link some pretty good stuff.
     

    gregr

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 1, 2016
    4,300
    113
    West-Central
    I am a grad student at IUPUI working on a paper for one of my classes. My topic is campus carry for PUBLIC colleges and universities (in favor of). I am have selected 3 arguments against campus carry (required for the paper)
    More guns on campus will increase violent crime
    Good guys with guns do not stop bad guys with guns
    Let the professionals handle it
    I have rebuttals for the anti viewpoint
    I also have my major argument for (my right to carry per the Indiana and US constitutions, self-protection, etc.).

    Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for arguments that are listed above? I have my IC codes for colleges and universities to disallow firearms (school policy vs. law). I also have the "no duty to protect" from SCOTUS. Anyone willing to provide additional information suggestions, ideas, etc., facts/figures that I may have missed? (Using CDC stats and some others).

    Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

    Thank-you!


    I simply cannot dream up a single argument to bolster the mistaken notion that somehow, guns are evil, and a good guy with a gun is a losing proposition...
     

    Rarejewell

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Aug 25, 2015
    251
    28
    Metro Indy
    I simply cannot dream up a single argument to bolster the mistaken notion that somehow, guns are evil, and a good guy with a gun is a losing proposition...

    Well, I am not saying that they are correct or that I agree, I am just stating that one of the main arguments often is. One of my main arguments is that I should not have to decided between having the ability to protect myself (on campus or off) and yet risk being suspended or expelled since it is against campus policy. Yes I understand the Idea of concealed carry.

    I should note that the code of student rights, responsibilities, and conduct states "Possession of any weapon or potential weapon on any university property contrary to law or university policy;" is an act of student misconduct that can get you kicked out of the university. so even pepper spray, a knife, walking stick, can be see as a weapon or potential weapon. BS is you ask me.
     

    throttletony

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jul 11, 2011
    3,630
    38
    nearby
    What other CONSTITUTIONAL rights stop at the edge of campus?
    Meaning preemptively -- not after you've incited a riot using your 1st ammendmemt, or something similar.

    Also, its worth mentioning the community college shooting that started and 2 students went to their cars for guns and stopped the shooting. TN or WV I think.

    As a point of interest, Indiana's public university laws regarding firearms are pretty mellow. If caught with a firearm, after the dust settles, isnt it a privacy/tresspassing/policy violation? They can expel/fire you, but it's not an automatic felony, right?

    Michigan has left room in the law for these offenses to be codified as felonies.

    ..feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
     

    Indyal

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 6, 2009
    261
    18
    Regarding the student code of conduct on potential weapons. This definition would seem to allow the administration to say "I know pornography when I see it". Furthermore, it would contradict the "run, hide, fight" advice because once you fight, you are using improvised "weapons" i.e. Laptop, pen, heavy stapler, fire extinguisher, etc, etc
     

    TangoSierraEcho

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 22, 2016
    109
    18
    Monroe County
    I am a grad student at IUPUI working on a paper for one of my classes. My topic is campus carry for PUBLIC colleges and universities (in favor of). I am have selected 3 arguments against campus carry (required for the paper)
    More guns on campus will increase violent crime
    Good guys with guns do not stop bad guys with guns
    Let the professionals handle it
    I have rebuttals for the anti viewpoint
    I also have my major argument for (my right to carry per the Indiana and US constitutions, self-protection, etc.).

    Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for arguments that are listed above? I have my IC codes for colleges and universities to disallow firearms (school policy vs. law). I also have the "no duty to protect" from SCOTUS. Anyone willing to provide additional information suggestions, ideas, etc., facts/figures that I may have missed? (Using CDC stats and some others).

    Any help is greatly appreciated!!!

    Thank-you!

    individuals have rights that grant them the freedom to carry firearms but how do you balance this with public safety? Who is responsible for public safety if not the individuals who make up the public? I think you could consider asking where does the desire to keep people safe begin to infringe on an individuals right to contribute to that safety? There are several good articles on individual gun rights vs public safety that you can reference.

    He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither - Benjamin Franklin
     
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