Buying Online Privately- Best Practice

[Brett244]

Hey all- I have done some looking/searching through the forums to try and find some good practices when buying online privately.

Scenario- I found a hard to find gun on armslist, but it is out of state and too far to drive. I know the seller will have to ship to an FFL for the transaction. My hangup on the deal is, I don't know this person and it makes me hesitant to send $1,000+ with no guarantee he will send the gun.

So, is there an option that I could send the money to an FFL on his side and they ship to my FFL to guarantee that the gun will be sent? This is for a long gun FYI. Or is there some other avenue to relieve my anxiety on the deal? Or should I just pass on it and wait for one to show up local?

Thanks in advance,
Brett

 

[223 Gunner]

That is a tough one. I would ask the seller if he has feedback on a national level, such as ebay or gunbroker.
I am pretty good at spotting scam ads on armslist, if you want to PM me the ad, I can tell you if I think it is a scam.
I sell on armslist as well and have never offered shipping.

I suspect this may be a fake ad. Notice how there is no real information except from the MFG.
Plus the Indiana Indiana and non registered user.

ARMSLIST - For Sale: AUTO ORDNANCE THOMPSON 1927A-1 .45 TI GOLD T150DTG

Or copy and paste the title in a google search bar and see if it is really listed on gunbroker, which is what a lot of these scammers do. They steal the title and pics from a legit ad.
Hope this helps you and others that may not know how to spot a fake ad or scam.

I myself would wait for it to show up locally or buy it from gunbroker from a seller with at least 5 positive feedbacks.

 

[Brett244]

Well I actually posted a WTB ad in Armslist and he contacted me. I pulled his email and Google searched it, I did get one hit on a Smith and Wesson forum classifieds. He is a "silver contributor" on that site and has 1,308 Posts on there for what its worth. I would definitely rather meet a person FTF and be able to inspect it prior to buying, but I have looked for this model for about a year and haven't had any luck.

Gunbroker has a few and that is likely the path I'll end up taking, but if I can work out a safe deal with this guy, it would save me a few $100's, money for ammo, or COLD BEER!

 

[courier6]

Using the FFL as a middleman sounds like a good idea. Lot's of scammers on armslist.

 

[citizenkane]

Armslist says right on its website that it's for face to face transactions.

I'd be very leary of sending someone money on armslist. Is his price well below what it should be? Thats a big red flag there if it is.

 

[Audie Murphy]

That is a tough one. I would ask the seller if he has feedback on a national level, such as ebay or gunbroker.
I am pretty good at spotting scam ads on armslist, if you want to PM me the ad, I can tell you if I think it is a scam.
I sell on armslist as well and have never offered shipping.

I suspect this may be a fake ad. Notice how there is no real information except from the MFG.
Plus the Indiana Indiana and non registered user.

ARMSLIST - For Sale: AUTO ORDNANCE THOMPSON 1927A-1 .45 TI GOLD T150DTG

Or copy and paste the title in a google search bar and see if it is really listed on gunbroker, which is what a lot of these scammers do. They steal the title and pics from a legit ad.
Hope this helps you and others that may not know how to spot a fake ad or scam.

I myself would wait for it to show up locally or buy it from gunbroker from a seller with at least 5 positive feedbacks.

Anytime I see Indiana Indiana as a location on Armslist, I can't help but feel they are scammers

 

[slipnotz]

Just like Audie Murphy said, when it lists Indiana Indiana, stay away from it. When I contacted Indiana Indiana he said he was from out of state. He said he lists them that way so people in Indiana would look at it. I only do FTF.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Hey 223 Gunner, could you maybe post a tutorial on what to watch out for, or a "How to spot a Scammer" so we could all know what to look out for?

Thanks

 

[Lumpy76]

What gun are you looking for?

 

[55fairlane]

Unless your local FFL can and will transfer your cash to another reputable FFL, FTF, IS the only way to go
And when meeting someone,find a "good" safe location, such as I use Harrison St right behind the federal court house in Ft Wayne, lots of cameras,armed gaurd in the tower that over looks the parking lot and street.....if something ugly goes down,there should be plenty of camera caught evidence

Be safe.....

Aaron

 

[venenoindy]

If is a firearm that you really want and it is within reasonable driving distance I would offer to mset at an FFL in his state, that way you can inspect the firearm and once you are satisfied with the condition he can ship it through that FFL. I wouldn't send any money to a out of state Armslist seller period and even Gunbroker can hace some issues, I purchased a used Glock 19 from dealer on Gunbroker that advertise as like new in the box but when I received it had some minor holster wear. I did contact the seller and it was a pain going back and forward so I won't buy and other used gun if I can't inspect it prior to buy.

 

[gopher]

If you decide to do an out-of-state private firearm purchase, I would suggest using an escrow service for firearms like PistolPay (I have used PistolPay once and was satisfied with the service). Using an escrow service provides protection for both buyer and seller. The buyer deposits money into an escrow account and the seller is notified to ship the firearm. Your payment is only released to the seller once you receive the firearm and approve of the condition, etc.

Be careful of some of the other firearms escrow services as some of them have odd terms of service and/or you agree to abide by native american law ( ::cough:: PaySafe ::cough:: ) Most general escrow service companies won't handle a firearm purchase, unfortunately.

However, as others have said you need to be VERY wary of doing a non-FTF purchase of a firearm. Caveat emptor as they say...

 

[canterbc]

If you can send him PayPal or a USPS money order, there may be some level of protection.

If you use PayPal you have to pay for goods and services, not send money to a friend. You will have to pay a small fee, but it is the only way to gain protection from PayPal.

If if you use a USPS money order I believe you get into the whole territory of mail fraud if the deal is a scam. You may or may not still be out your money, I don't know, but the very real threat of legal action is a pretty big deterrent. I've been told to not mess with postal inspectors, they take their jobs seriously.

All that said, I really really prefer FTF unless I'm dealing with a FFL. I have never done a private firearms transaction with somebody I didn't know via mail and I'm pretty sure I never will.

 

[DRob]

I have done such a deal once but it was with a seller who I knew from several years of posting on RFC and quite a few PMs. Even then, he didn't ship until he received my check and it cleared. The gun was shipped FFL to FFL.

You said "it would save me a few $100's". That by itself would worry me. If the deal seems to good to be true, it probably isn't true.

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

You posted a WTB and he found you. The ad is incomplete and the gun is almost $400 cheaper than wholesale (I'm a dealer so I checked it). Even if you didn't know the wholesale price just shopping on Gunbroker will tell you that this price is why too cheap for this gun. Why so low for this gun? sick mom? must sell because he is transferring overseas? You see where I'm going? This smells, I'd stay away.

 

[WebSnyper]

If you can send him PayPal or a USPS money order, there may be some level of protection.

If you use PayPal you have to pay for goods and services, not send money to a friend. You will have to pay a small fee, but it is the only way to gain protection from PayPal.

If if you use a USPS money order I believe you get into the whole territory of mail fraud if the deal is a scam. You may or may not still be out your money, I don't know, but the very real threat of legal action is a pretty big deterrent. I've been told to not mess with postal inspectors, they take their jobs seriously.

All that said, I really really prefer FTF unless I'm dealing with a FFL. I have never done a private firearms transaction with somebody I didn't know via mail and I'm pretty sure I never will.

Except Paypal doesn't allow firearms transactions https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/acceptableuse-full?locale.x=en_US

So Paypal would not extend any protections as it is against their terms and conditions.

As far as the OP's question... I would not do it. Stay on the hunt locally. It will turn up. Have you posted a WTB on INGO?

 

[Brett244]

Thank you all for the information. It seems pretty consistent that I should avoid the transaction, which is the response I anticipated.

I have posted in the INGO WTB, no response. Guess I should probably just pony up the extra money to get a new one.

 

[223 Gunner]

Hey 223 Gunner, could you maybe post a tutorial on what to watch out for, or a "How to spot a Scammer" so we could all know what to look out for?

Thanks

Sure. This will be for armslist only, as I have gotten pretty good at spotting them on there. I don't know about other sites, but I would suspect they all follow a similar pattern.
My post covered most of it.
1.) Price is way too cheap, the old adage applies here, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. It's probably a scam.

2.) If the ad says Indiana Indiana for the location, or pick any city in Indiana. I see Ft. Wayne a lot as well as Lafayette.

3.) Click "other listings by this user", and see if the same ad is running in another state

4.) If I suspect it is a scam, I open a 2nd browser and copy and paste the title, and a lot of times you will find that firearm running on gunbroker.
Where the scammer has basically copied and pasted someone's ad, usually not from the same state as the fake ad is running.

Also if you have something for sale and you get an email that simply says: "Is the firearm still for sale" or something else along the lines of what you have covered in your ad, it is usually a spammer trying to get your email address to spam it.
Before I reply to anyone that emails me from armslist, I google their email address and see what comes up. A lot of times it will get hits from other forums about that same email address belonging to a "flake" or spammer or scammer from armslist.

I flag quite a bit of ads on armslist as scams. But my flagging alone will not get them removed, I don't know the flagging "threshold" for armslist.

Hopefully this helps some of you.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you decide to do an out-of-state private firearm purchase, I would suggest using an escrow service for firearms like PistolPay (I have used PistolPay once and was satisfied with the service). Using an escrow service provides protection for both buyer and seller. The buyer deposits money into an escrow account and the seller is notified to ship the firearm. Your payment is only released to the seller once you receive the firearm and approve of the condition, etc.

Be careful of some of the other firearms escrow services as some of them have odd terms of service and/or you agree to abide by native american law ( ::cough:: PaySafe ::cough:: ) Most general escrow service companies won't handle a firearm purchase, unfortunately.

However, as others have said you need to be VERY wary of doing a non-FTF purchase of a firearm. Caveat emptor as they say...

What?

OK, looking up address of this company... Winnebago reservation... the address show up as a Catholic school...

 

[gopher]

What?

OK, looking up address of this company... Winnebago reservation... the address show up as a Catholic school...

PistolPay is in Miami Beach, FL (https://www.bizapedia.com/fl/pistolpay-llc.html).

It is PaySafe (who I do NOT recommend) that is on the Winnebago reservation and specifies in it's T&C that Winnebago law governs your transaction. I'm not willing to agree to abide by native american law in a firearm transaction...