boating enforcement

[LP1]

Saw the obligatory "holiday safety" story on the news - it mentioned that there will be stepped-up enforcement of boating regulations (number of life jackets, watching for intoxicated operation, etc.), and it showed stock footage of police officers searching a boat.

I don't have a boat, but I do occasionally go out on one. We all know that during a traffic stop we are not required to (and should not) give consent to having our vehicle searched. I was wondering how that applies when boating.

What are the circumstances under which an officer may come aboard and perform a search without consent? Are there any additional rules regarding firearms?

 

[Bill B]

As far as firearms it is my understanding that there are no "special rules" when it come to boats, but normal rules still apply such as Army Corps of Engineers lakes being a no-go.

 

[ScouT6a]

No different than anywhere else. Probable cause.

 

[bocefus78]

As far as firearms it is my understanding that there are no "special rules" when it come to boats, but normal rules still apply such as Army Corps of Engineers lakes being a no-go.

Not for certain but wasn't this repealed a few years back? I think a.c.e. properties are now ok to carry.

 

[PGRChaplain]

ACE Properties are considered Federal Land. No repeal that Ive heard of.

 

[Bill B]

Not for certain but wasn't this repealed a few years back? I think a.c.e. properties are now ok to carry.

I know there is an on-going court case about it, but don't know all the particulars.

 

[in625shooter]

It seems from when I worked municipal LE (this was several several years ago) the only break DNR gave was if they elected to not stop you.

And Conservation Officers are the most powerful LE in the state. All the have to do is have reasonable suspicion that there is something related to wildlife or game laws.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

We just did this thread a month ago, complete with the busting of the myth of CO Super-LEO status.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/great-outdoors/437820-probable-cause-dnr-boat-stops.html

 

[in625shooter]

We just did this thread a month ago, complete with the busting of the myth of CO Super-LEO status.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/great-outdoors/437820-probable-cause-dnr-boat-stops.html

I just find it funny how they magically appear out of thin air. Which help me keeping the violators off my acerage

 

[KJQ6945]

We just did this thread a month ago, complete with the busting of the myth of CO Super-LEO status.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/great-outdoors/437820-probable-cause-dnr-boat-stops.html

Maybe we should phrase it as, they think they are the most powerful LEOs, is that better? I boat every weekend, and the fourth amendment stops at the boat ramp.

I maintain at least three vehicles on the road, plus trailers. I haven't been stopped since the 80's. I have had a boat since 2000, in 17 years, I have been stopped 100's of times, in at least 3 states. Zero tickets have been issued, DNR fishes more than I do.
I asked this question in the previous thread, and it went unanswered. It takes a license to fish, to drive a vehicle, and to carry a gun. You can't be legally stopped to ask for a driving license or a carry license. Why do they get to stop you to check for a fishing license?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Why do they get to stop you to check for a fishing license?

Because Indiana Code says:

[FONT=&amp]IC 14-22-11-14Possession; display to enforcement officers; alteration
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp] Sec. 14. (a) A person who has procured a license or permit required under this article must have the license or permit on the person when engaged in the pursuit for which the license or permit was issued. Upon request of an officer authorized to enforce this article or the fish and wildlife laws of Indiana, the person must produce and exhibit the license or permit. If the person does not produce and exhibit the license or permit, the person may not engage in the pursuit authorized by the license or permit.
(b) A person or an authorized licensing agent may not falsify, predate, change, alter, or counterfeit a license or permit issued under this article.
[/FONT]

You need a license when:

[FONT=&amp] (b) Every person must have a fishing license in the person's possession when fishing in:[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp](1) waters containing state owned fish;[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp](2) waters of the state; or[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp](3) boundary waters of the state.

[/FONT]In short you are consenting to show your license when asked when you buy a license to fish in those waters and then do so.

 

[churchmouse]

Because Indiana Code says:

[FONT=&]IC 14-22-11-14Possession; display to enforcement officers; alteration
[/FONT]
[FONT=&] Sec. 14. (a) A person who has procured a license or permit required under this article must have the license or permit on the person when engaged in the pursuit for which the license or permit was issued. Upon request of an officer authorized to enforce this article or the fish and wildlife laws of Indiana, the person must produce and exhibit the license or permit. If the person does not produce and exhibit the license or permit, the person may not engage in the pursuit authorized by the license or permit.
(b) A person or an authorized licensing agent may not falsify, predate, change, alter, or counterfeit a license or permit issued under this article.
[/FONT]

You need a license when:

[FONT=&] (b) Every person must have a fishing license in the person's possession when fishing in:[/FONT]
[FONT=&](1) waters containing state owned fish;[/FONT]
[FONT=&](2) waters of the state; or[/FONT]
[FONT=&](3) boundary waters of the state.

[/FONT]In short you are consenting to show your license when asked when you buy a license to fish in those waters and then do so.

State owned fish.

I get it but man.

 

[KJQ6945]

I get what the statute says, I'm more curious as to how it stands.

You cant be stopped to check your drivers license, and now you can't be stopped because they see a gun.

By statute, if you are fishing, you are presumed to be doing it illegally. You can show a license, but they don't go away. They continue fishing. Let's see your registration. While I'm here, let's see your PFD. While you've got that compartment open, open your live well too. Where's your throwable.

I'm in a $50,000 boat, with better electronics than the DNR buys with other people's money, and he really thinks I cheated out on a $17 dollar license. If only lawyers were fisherman, maybe the constitution would apply.

 

[KJQ6945]

State owned fish.

I get it but man.

Lake Zonda, at Troy and Senour rd. 68 acres of private lake. Buck Creek flows into and out of it, therefore, state water, state owned fish. It is on over a 100 acres of locked, gated, private, property, and I honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've been checked there. It would be in the hundreds.

 

[bwframe]

As far as firearms it is my understanding that there are no "special rules" when it come to boats, but normal rules still apply such as Army Corps of Engineers lakes being a no-go.

While I'm not gonna tape it to my forehead, this is an area where I could be a test case. I have spent plenty enough time on and around the waterways to know they are the last place I would not carry. If it ever comes to be, hopefully my friends Kirk or Guy will help me out?

To give them their due, I have never had a conversation with a CO unarmed. They have never batted an eye. I cannot imagine that they missed my lightly concealed sidearm.

I even chuckled under my breath earlier this year. Standing beside a fishing buddy who was very meticulous to tell the fishing license checking CO that he was carrying/licensed after he had just checked mine and I said nothing.

I wonder what the Indiana CO's priorities are as far as ACOE enforcement? I have had conversations with them reference railroad trespassing (I was,) and city lake boat launch permits. The CO's gave the impression that unless complaints were made that they were only checking fishing licenses and state boating requirements.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I get what the statute says, I'm more curious as to how it stands.

You cant be stopped to check your drivers license, and now you can't be stopped because they see a gun.

The same way you consent to a search of your luggage when you fly in a non-private plane, allow inspections by a health inspector when you open a restaurant, or you agree to show your ID to use a border check point. By engaging in certain voluntary activities you consent to some searches. Some activities are more voluntary than others, and some are more protected than others.

In very broad strokes, the 4th amendment protects you from unreasonable searches and seizures. It does not protect you from reasonable searches and seizures. "Reasonable" is decided by the courts if there is a challenge to the legislation. They balance the interests of society vs the level of intrusion, etc, etc. If this law has ever been challenged, and if so what the rationale was, I have no idea and don't care enough to research it.