Online and free NICS checks

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  • gopher

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Feb 13, 2013
    528
    28
    Zionsville, IN
    I am having a discussion on Twitter regarding a proposal to make NICS checks online and free. This was presented as a potential "bi-partisan" way to help prevent firearms from getting into the wrong hands. The idea is anyone could do a NICS check online and at no charge. One would have to input the usual identifying information for the buyer (as on a 4473) and then would get back a response indicating that person was or was not a "prohibited possessor". Whether firearm make/model/serial # would have to be included is unknown. Availing yourself of a NICS background check in this manner for a private sale would be voluntary.

    This *might* increase utilization of the NICS background check system by removing the cost involved as well as allowing the check to be done anywhere that an internet connection was available.

    I had actually considered this a while back and rejected the idea for the following reasons:


    1. you can do essentially the same thing right now by requiring the buyer produce his/her LTCH
    2. many staunch 2A defenders would see this as a foot in the door for mandatory UBCs
    3. many staunch 2A defenders are at the point where ANY further restrictions on firearms are unacceptable
    4. NICS returns quite a few "false positives" (or so I've heard; including your SSN apparently reduces the chance of a false positive at the risk of revealing private information)
    5. potential for government surveillance (IP addresses and other information could be stored)

    What says INGO?
     

    K_W

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Aug 14, 2008
    5,385
    63
    Indy / Carmel
    No, it only helps makes the case for UBC's... We all now how this goes.... UBC's WILL lead to registration "to ensure compliance"... registration leads to statistics... statistics are used to instill fear in the masses... masses call for confiscation.

    If you get the creeps from the buyer/seller, cancel the sale.
     

    Vigilant

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
    83
    Plainfield
    No! It’s all I will say, some among us relish the thought of better and more governmental nannyism, I’m done with it.
    ETA: there’s no need for free NICS, just outlaw private sales, all sales go through a government approved dealer. No more gifting to sons and daughters, without .gov oversight, no more private transactions period. Send’em all through the .gov approved process, what’s the worst that could happen?
     
    Last edited:

    GodFearinGunTotin

    Super Moderator
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Mar 22, 2011
    50,586
    113
    Mitchell
    How would this idea have stopped any of the recent mass murders?

    Would the gang members in places like Chicago be affected by this...at all?

    No. The only people that would avail themselves of this is the law abiding...with an internet connection.
     

    DRob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Aug 2, 2008
    5,869
    83
    Southside of Indy
    ............

    No. The only people that would avail themselves of this is the law abiding...with an internet connection.

    An internet connection and the willingness to put more unsecured personal info on the internet. It would be an identity thief's dream come true. Not to mention a great place for our friends in the media to compile a list of gun owners.
     

    level0

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 13, 2013
    1,099
    48
    Indianapolis
    I am having a discussion on Twitter regarding a proposal to make NICS checks online and free. This was presented as a potential "bi-partisan" way to help prevent firearms from getting into the wrong hands. The idea is anyone could do a NICS check online and at no charge. One would have to input the usual identifying information for the buyer (as on a 4473) and then would get back a response indicating that person was or was not a "prohibited possessor". Whether firearm make/model/serial # would have to be included is unknown. Availing yourself of a NICS background check in this manner for a private sale would be voluntary.

    This *might* increase utilization of the NICS background check system by removing the cost involved as well as allowing the check to be done anywhere that an internet connection was available.

    I had actually considered this a while back and rejected the idea for the following reasons:


    1. you can do essentially the same thing right now by requiring the buyer produce his/her LTCH
    2. many staunch 2A defenders would see this as a foot in the door for mandatory UBCs
    3. many staunch 2A defenders are at the point where ANY further restrictions on firearms are unacceptable
    4. NICS returns quite a few "false positives" (or so I've heard; including your SSN apparently reduces the chance of a false positive at the risk of revealing private information)
    5. potential for government surveillance (IP addresses and other information could be stored)

    What says INGO?

    Fail. What would this accomplish exactly? The Texas psychopath would still get his guns. So would the Las Vegas guy. And criminals won't use this anyway, only law-abiding citizens. So more burden on me that does nothing to stop anyone from doing anything.

    2x fail: The LTCH is only a snapshot in time. At the moment it was issued, more than likely the bearer was a proper person. But it's only a snapshot it time, if I have my LTCH for 15 years and committed a disqualifying felony say 14 years ago - how will my LTCH tell anyone that? LTCH is only good to waive in Mr. Police face, or produce in court after the ticket is issued. It means nothing.

    3x fail: Government already has that potential with every 4473 filed and every NICS check that results. Those forms never die.

    I like to end on a positive note, so I applaud the voluntary part, to which I will never participate :)
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
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    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    I remember playing this out in my mind and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be viable... I just don't remember why.

    Spitballing here, but would you just be able to give a name? Could you then use it to "check" your neighbors?
     

    LarryC

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jun 18, 2012
    2,418
    63
    Frankfort
    Sounds like an Anti suggestion! I have been "around" in my life, been in a few seedy taverns and knew a few seedy people. Anyone that has any real world knowledge knows with absolute certainty that any neer-do-well can buy or obtain a firearm in one day or two regardless of his past criminal history, period.

    If you haven't been out to see, try going to one of the lower class tavern's in just about any city or town, let the bartender and other patrons you are wanting to purchase a firearm for cash. In almost all cases you will have offers within one or two visits. Likely these will be old shotguns, Jennings, Hipoint or other inexpensive guns, but firearms that are usable for criminals uses. Many of these probably are legally owned by individuals that have had them handed down from family but are willing to sell for a price, while others may have been purchased legally years ago, others may have been stolen.

    Remember there are tens of thousands of firearm brought back by GI's from WW-2. Many more purchased in the 30's through 60's that have never been purchase using a 4473, as this was not in place until 1968, prior to that date you could obtain any non automatic firearm through the mail or from a dealer, friend, or catalog. There is absolutely NO record of firearms purchases prior to 1968.

    Note: this is not the places to go to improve your collection of fine firearm and I don't suggest visiting such places in a suit and tie or you may have some problems!

    The other issue is that most of the criminal types do have "friends" of a sort that have stolen or otherwise purchased guns and are willing to part with them for a price which may include drugs, stolen merchandise or cash. Those who ignore the law do not acquire their firearms in the same way we do, but there is a black market with an abundant supply of guns available.

    With the number of firearms in the US, it is inevitable many are traded, purchased and or stolen and are readily available for criminals to obtain. No, they are not likely to ever purchase them through the same channels we legal gun owners do, but they sure can get all they want regardless of any and all "laws" and or other actions authorities take.

    Personally, I would never allow a private person access to my SS#, address and other information they could obtain from a 4473. I know this would not affect the criminal element obtaining firearms in the least and would subject me to giving out information that could result in identity theft, or having my residence broken into by criminals to steal my firearms and other goods. This could also lead to "registration" of legally held firearms, while having no effect on the ones held by criminals.

    JUST NOT A GOOD IDEA.
     

    lonehoosier

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    May 3, 2011
    8,012
    63
    NWI
    I don't get this. You can already go to a FFL and do the same thing. Sure it may cost you $15 but it's already in place.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    I don't get this. You can already go to a FFL and do the same thing. Sure it may cost you $15 but it's already in place.

    Soooo... why is it preferable to have an FFL Subsidy in place? I'm not tracking.

    I see something like this as a free insurance policy for private sellers.

    It won't make the black/gray market go away for guns. And, I'd be generally opposed to making it mandatory for private sales, but it could be part of a compromise that included expansion of gun rights elsewhere. Like suppressors or national reciprocity (without federal licensing).
     

    indiucky

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    DirectGrotesqueBeetle-max-1mb.gif
     

    Bfish

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Feb 24, 2013
    5,801
    48
    I don't get this. You can already go to a FFL and do the same thing. Sure it may cost you $15 but it's already in place.

    This was what I thought of...
    If it matters enough to you to do it you can already have it done. Heck my LGS even does it for $10! I feel like a lot of people wouldn't use it even if it was free. I am also with everyone saying it's a step in the direction of making it mandatory which is a step to...
     

    lonehoosier

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    May 3, 2011
    8,012
    63
    NWI
    Soooo... why is it preferable to have an FFL Subsidy in place? I'm not tracking.

    I see something like this as a free insurance policy for private sellers.

    It won't make the black/gray market go away for guns. And, I'd be generally opposed to making it mandatory for private sales, but it could be part of a compromise that included expansion of gun rights elsewhere. Like suppressors or national reciprocity (without federal licensing).
    Because that's how it works now. Most charge anywhere from $10 to $50 for transfer fee's. Sooooo are you saying FFL's should not be compassed for their time?
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    Because that's how it works now. Most charge anywhere from $10 to $50 for transfer fee's. Sooooo are you saying FFL's should not be compassed for their time?

    That's an odd question based on the content of my post.

    Why should using an FFL be necessary? My point is that $10-$50 insurance policy (using an FFL to do a NICS and the paperwork) goes to a $0 (to the user) insurance policy.

    Let me be clear: to the extent the OP might be suggesting (although I re-read the post and didn't see this) that it be mandatory, I disagree. That would not be a good development.

    Rather, particularly as part of a larger approach to modern data, it makes a ton of sense. No one wants to live next to a registered sex offender, so there's all sorts of data and mapping now available. Basic background checks are part of all sorts of job and credit applications. There are various ways in Indiana to get an idea of what crimes might be in someone's past. Aggregating all of this, while it does pose some risks, would help all of us understand the people in our lives a bit better.

    Sorry-not-sorry, but if I ever sell a gun, I'd like to have some idea who I'm dealing with.
     
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