Gunbroker seller sends in wrong name.

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • BrettonJudy7

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Nov 2, 2017
    668
    43
    GREENFIELD
    I buy a lot of guns on Gunbroker, and I usually am always watching a few things here and there.

    So there was a Mossberg cruiser that was real cheap to buy, but at the moment, I am not buying guns as I am saving for an engagement ring, but it was a real great deal, and I felt bad to just let it pass up, because if I weren't saving, I would have bought it. So I sent the link to my buddy and asked if he was interested in buying it. Not buying it for me, but just buying it for himself to own (I knew that he was also looking and it was a great deal). He also does not have a Gunbroker account. He did want it, so I bid for him using my account, and he won.

    He contacted the seller, he pad for it himself, he contacted an ffl holder to transfer the gun, no problems. Everything is great. Well I went into the gun shop on Friday to shoot, and the guy setting me up to pay for range time, saw my name on my ID and said they had just gotten the shotgun in, but it's in my name. I'm not sure why the seller would have sent it in my name. because I never had any contact with the seller. The only thing I can think of is that he got my name from my gunbroker account and sent it. The guy explained that I would need to come in and pay the transfer fee since it's in my name.

    My friend will just give me the money, and he'll go in with me, but it's going to be his, so am I doing anything legally wrong here? How can we get this transferred so that it is in his name? Should I be worried about anything?

    Thanks!
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    What do you mean, "wrong name"? That is, is your name simply on the shipping documents?

    And the money has already changed hands, right?

    If the shipping doc is the only thing with your name on it, but your friend can produce some sort of receipt saying he paid for it, the gun shop owner/FFL might think that's ok and have the friend do the forms. If he doesn't (which, frankly, would be reasonable since your name is on it), then it gets tough.

    At the risk of going full-crazy, it might be worth a call to the ATF to ask how to handle it. Maybe an INGO FFL can offer a suggestion. Legally, this seems like a minefield. As you figured out.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    He's buying, so he needs to fill out the F4473.

    However, it's complicated by the fact that the box is addressed to you, so the local dealer has to assume that you paid for it and may balk at transferring it to him. You need to convince the local dealer that he paid for it and the seller made a mistake by putting your name on the box. Either have your buddy produce evidence to that fact or have the seller contact the local dealer, or both.


    The shipping label on the box is not a legal indication of the owner, buyer or seller.
     

    BrettonJudy7

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Nov 2, 2017
    668
    43
    GREENFIELD
    What do you mean, "wrong name"? That is, is your name simply on the shipping documents?

    And the money has already changed hands, right?

    At the risk of going full-crazy, it might be worth a call to the ATF to ask how to handle it. Maybe an INGO FFL can offer a suggestion. Legally, this seems like a minefield. As you figured out.

    Wrong name meaning that the gun should not have been shipped with my name, but it should have been my friends name. Yes the money has changed hands. I haven't paid anything for it. My friend paid, he did the arrangements, but the gun shop is saying that it was sent in my name (should be in my friends name), and that I will need to come in and get it.

    I will contact my friend and see if he has a receipt or anything. At any rate, I have used the same guns hop before, and they know me, so they will probably understand the issue. Hopefully...
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,696
    113
    .
    As long as he fills out and signs the 4473 I don't see a problem. Anything else is.
     

    printcraft

    INGO Clown
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Feb 14, 2008
    38,993
    113
    Uranus
    Seller could be oblivious to the name and might not have even checked it if they did a CC or paypal.
    He used you info since it was done though your account.
    You now own a shotgun. Go fill out the 4473 and move forward.
    It's getting close to Christmas right?
    Merry Christmas buddy.
    YMMV IANAL IDSAAHILN
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
    15,419
    113
    127.0.0.1
    My friend will just give me the money, and he'll go in with me, but it's going to be his, so am I doing anything legally wrong here? How can we get this transferred so that it is in his name? Should I be worried about anything?

    Thanks!

    And there is no gun registration in Indiana, so there is no need to get it "transferred so that it is in his name", beyond the details around whatever you guys do with the 4473.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    Somewhat of a derail, but the OP may have violated Gb's rules with this assist to a friend. You won the bid, so Gb might've required the seller to identify you as the receiver of the firearm. Otherwise, it would look like it was a side-deal or something.
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    And there is no gun registration in Indiana, so there is no need to get it "transferred so that it is in his name", beyond the details around whatever you guys do with the 4473.

    :scratch:

    The transfer is part of the F4473. The dealer must transfer it to someone and will record it in his log book. And if he's not transferring it to the actual owner, well, do they conduct weddings in prison?
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Somewhat of a derail, but the OP may have violated Gb's rules with this assist to a friend. You won the bid, so Gb might've required the seller to identify you as the receiver of the firearm. Otherwise, it would look like it was a side-deal or something.

    It probably would have been better if your friend set up his own GunBroker account, but that's water under the bridge.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
    152
    Speedway area
    Somewhat of a derail, but the OP may have violated Gb's rules with this assist to a friend. You won the bid, so Gb might've required the seller to identify you as the receiver of the firearm. Otherwise, it would look like it was a side-deal or something.

    ^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     

    BrettonJudy7

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Nov 2, 2017
    668
    43
    GREENFIELD
    Somewhat of a derail, but the OP may have violated Gb's rules with this assist to a friend. You won the bid, so Gb might've required the seller to identify you as the receiver of the firearm. Otherwise, it would look like it was a side-deal or something.

    Yeah I was thinking that it was probably something like that. I'm just hoping there isn't a big hassle for any reason, but there may be.

    It probably would have been better if your friend set up his own GunBroker account, but that's water under the bridge.


    In hindsight, that's really what should have happened. Oh well. You live and learn how to do things right for the next time.
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
    15,419
    113
    127.0.0.1
    :scratch:

    The transfer is part of the F4473. The dealer must transfer it to someone and will record it in his log book. And if he's not transferring it to the actual owner, well, do they conduct weddings in prison?
    Understood, but there is nothing to worry about as far as it being in someone's name officially. Yes, the 4473 can be tracked to a person, but it is not an owner registration and therefore there is no need to put it in someone's name in the state of IN. 4473 gets tracked to you, and the answer is simply the truth, which is gun was sold, gifted, traded, etc and no need to provide any more info. I just provided this comment as many are under the perception that the 4473 is a registration and that there is some need to keep up this registration going forward, and there is not.

    As far as prison, I think some states do, not sure about fed :stickpoke:but I don't intend to ever go through that again (still married but not going for a second trip, ever), whether in prison or not.
     

    WanderingSol07

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 7, 2017
    413
    28
    North Central
    I would think the OP should do the 4473 in his name and just let the FFL think he is the buyer. When the paperwork is done and gun in hand, just give the gun to your buddy. He is a proper person, correct? I do not think this is a straw purchase as the person ultimately receiving the gun is a proper person. This would be no different than me buying a gun for someone as a surprise gift. After buying, doing the 4473, and getting the gun, what you do with it is no one else's business unless you break the law by giving it to an out of state person or someone not proper.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    I would think the OP should do the 4473 in his name and just let the FFL think he is the buyer. When the paperwork is done and gun in hand, just give the gun to your buddy. He is a proper person, correct? I do not think this is a straw purchase as the person ultimately receiving the gun is a proper person. This would be no different than me buying a gun for someone as a surprise gift. After buying, doing the 4473, and getting the gun, what you do with it is no one else's business unless you break the law by giving it to an out of state person or someone not proper.
    Actually, the paperwork would reflect something that looks almost identical to a straw purchase: dude 1 pays for gun, dude 2 gets gun (even if dude 2 gives gun to dude 1).
     

    JettaKnight

    Я з Україною
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Oct 13, 2010
    26,517
    113
    Fort Wayne
    T.Lex, Kirk - I'm drawing a blank. Who was it in Virginia that had his strawman purchase conviction upheld by the supreme court?

    Line 11a: "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearms(s) listed on this form?"

    If the OP fills out the F4473 then it's a strawman purchase, it's as simple as that. Transfers are always part of interstate law == federal issue == BATFE == no common sense.


    The feds take a real dim view of lying.

    Understood, but there is nothing to worry about as far as it being in someone's name officially. Yes, the 4473 can be tracked to a person, but it is not an owner registration and therefore there is no need to put it in someone's name in the state of IN. 4473 gets tracked to you, and the answer is simply the truth, which is gun was sold, gifted, traded, etc and no need to provide any more info. I just provided this comment as many are under the perception that the 4473 is a registration and that there is some need to keep up this registration going forward, and there is not.
    OK, let's chalk it up to extra information that's not quite germane to this discussion.
     
    Last edited:

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
    113
    T.Lex, Kirk - I'm drawing a blank. Who was it in Virginia that had his strawman purchase conviction upheld by the supreme court?
    Abramski.

    Abramski v. United States - SCOTUSblog

    The facts are different, in that it was the guy doing the immediate funding of the gun purchase did so knowing that he would get reimbursed by the guy who the gun was actually for. (Well, that's the version closest to being a criminal act.)

    This is a stranger situation, in that the guy filling out the 4473 for the gun that has already been purchased isn't the guy who will end up with the gun. But, in the spirit of what the 4473 "means," the guy on the bill of lading isn't the actual purchaser, so probably shouldn't fill out the 4473. The person actually acquiring the gun needs to do the 4473.
     

    Site Supporter

    INGO Supporter

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    524,489
    Messages
    9,794,217
    Members
    53,638
    Latest member
    Dhlawson
    Top Bottom