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  1. #1
    Grandmaster hoosierdoc's Avatar

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    ER docís take on the current gun debate

    Struggling with the Gun Debate and Faith |

    Dr Leap is a doc I follow. Usually has great points and this is another great read.
    Amazing Grace, how sweet was her sound.

    Love them as if you'll lose them.

  2. #2
    Expert MarkC's Avatar

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    Dr. Leap's post is one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts I have seen online. He is clearly self-aware and insightful, but knows that maintaining his self-awareness and insight requires much work.

    He is respectful of others' views, while thoroughly and very thoughtfully disagreeing with them. I wish there were more clear, articulate writers like him.

  3. #3
    I Care...Really
    churchmouse's Avatar

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    I am about halfway through it but just what I have read is well written.

    I will be sharing this in other places.
    AKA..Thor. Odin son. God of thunder.
    But you can call me John.....Force.

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  4. #4
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    Interesting read. He is certainly more self reflective than I have ever been.

  5. #5
    Grandmaster MrsGungho's Avatar

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    going to read this later when I have more time.
    No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree ~ W. C. Fields

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierdoc View Post
    Struggling with the Gun Debate and Faith |

    Dr Leap is a doc I follow. Usually has great points and this is another great read.
    Excellent read, he has obviously given this subject a lot of thought. I empathize with his views, and agree with all of them, except I don't find the AR's etc. "scary guns", just modern designs using today's materials.

    Many years ago I was taking a break outside the plant I worked at, a lady who knew I had firearms was an advocate of passing a law banning all firearms started a conversation with me espousing her viewpoint.

    I waited until she had stated her case, then said "I understand your points but those who use firearms to harm people are not concerned with laws". " Do you honestly think they would turn in their firearms"? "If only law-abiding citizens turn in their firearms that would leave only the criminals with guns, Is that what you want?" Then I said, "I enjoy target shooting and hunting but if there were no firearms in the hands of Criminals and those people would not use other methods to harm others, I would gladly give up my guns!"

    She looked shocked as she digested my statements then said "I have never looked at it that way, maybe you are right!" I believe at that moment she finally understood why many of us keep firearms, I never heard her make any anti-gun statement after that.
    Life member NRA - FFL -03 (Collector) life LTCH

  7. #7

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    I like it. Lays it all out very well.

  8. #8
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Good read. I'd like to think many of us thoughtful Christians have had moments of pause and introspection like the author. I look forward to the day when they'll no longer be needed. But until then, I'll too keep mine and pray I never have to use them.
    INGOer #18,319

  9. #9
    Grandmaster cosermann's Avatar

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    Haven't heard of the Doc before. Fairly good post. However, I'm surprised a bit by his thinking that there may be something "un-Christian" about opposing the current anti-gun push (the goal of which in actuality is a total ban arrived at incrementally).

    As a guy who reads the puritans, I'd expect him to be familiar with the Westminster Standards and their treatment of the Sixth Commandment - Thou shalt not murder - in its Larger and Shorter Catechisms.

    Every commandment, whether phrased positively or negatively, includes both sides of the same coin. Where a duty is commanded, the contrary sin is forbidden; and where a sin is forbidden the contrary duty is commanded (Larger Catechism Q99).

    With respect to the Sixth Commandment, it forbids murder, i.e. the unjust taking of life and whatsoever tends thereunto.

    Conversely, the Sixth Commandment requires the preserving of life and whatsoever tends thereunto, including the just/lawful defense of innocent life against violence (LC Q135 and Shorter Catechism Q68).

    Self-defense (and the defense of others), in usual cases, is a Christian responsibility. As in days past when the sword was the most effective common means of defense available, today it is the firearm.

    Since no one can wave a magic wand and vanish firearms from the modern world, might it actually be a Christian DUTY to be armed (as much as wearing one's seat belt, or motor cycle helmet, having smoke detectors, etc.)?
    Nothing is everything, but everything is something. - Ayoob

  10. #10
    Sharpshooter CraigAPS's Avatar

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    Cosermann, I love that interpretation! What, IMHO, has made it a dilemma for Christians is the fact that most versions of The Bible translate the original Hebrew as "kill" instead of "murder." From the Internet information that I have seen, the Hebrew says "thou shall not murder." But, if you look at translations, such as the KJV, they say "thou shall not kill." This small, but important distinction causes the dilemma that Doc discusses.

    A note on why I say "original Hebrew":
    The first five books of the Bible (referred to as the Pentateuch) came from the Torah. Thus, the Ten Commandments being in Exodus and Deuteronomy, it would be part of the Pentateuch and have came from the Torah.

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