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  • walt o

    Expert
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    5   0   0
    Feb 10, 2008
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    Hammond
    About a month ago a person came into a local pawn shop and wanted to pawn his deceased fathers mod 94 SR carbine made in 1909 ,he was told that he would be required to fill out a 4473 to get his gun back ,said he will be back to clam it in 1 mo. True to his word he came back in yesterday to redeem the pawn .Was told to fill out a 4473 which he did gave it to the manager and he called it in .Atf denied it and looking over the 4473 he had checked that he was a convicted felon. Of course they would not return his gun but gave him his money back .He threw a hissey fit and wanted to call the police . This is were it gets interesting.
    Police came and listened to both sides of the story,asked the manager if he could call the ATF and have them make an exemption so the gun could be returned to the customer,manager made the call with known results.Then the police asked if they could just have the customer pay the pawn charge and then receive the gun they were told NO. They escorted the customer out who was muttering that the pawn shop was taking his gun because it was an antique.
    Can't believe that local police have NO idea of federal gun laws no wonder the background checks don't work. It's not the gun shops that should be picketed ,but enforcement branches
    Now the pawn shop is holding a firearm without any idea as to what to do with it.
    -
     

    WebSnyper

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    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
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    127.0.0.1
    About a month ago a person came into a local pawn shop and wanted to pawn his deceased fathers mod 94 SR carbine made in 1909 ,he was told that he would be required to fill out a 4473 to get his gun back ,said he will be back to clam it in 1 mo. True to his word he came back in yesterday to redeem the pawn .Was told to fill out a 4473 which he did gave it to the manager and he called it in .Atf denied it and looking over the 4473 he had checked that he was a convicted felon. Of course they would not return his gun but gave him his money back .He threw a hissey fit and wanted to call the police . This is were it gets interesting.
    Police came and listened to both sides of the story,asked the manager if he could call the ATF and have them make an exemption so the gun could be returned to the customer,manager made the call with known results.Then the police asked if they could just have the customer pay the pawn charge and then receive the gun they were told NO. They escorted the customer out who was muttering that the pawn shop was taking his gun because it was an antique.
    Can't believe that local police have NO idea of federal gun laws no wonder the background checks don't work. It's not the gun shops that should be picketed ,but enforcement branches
    Now the pawn shop is holding a firearm without any idea as to what to do with it.
    -


    Sell it? Seems he can't meet the requirements of the contract...
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
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    Plainfield
    The pawn shop should sell the 30-30 as a consignment.
    I mean, it’s not on consignment any longer, they refunded his money. So they bought it for the original loan, plus the payment with interest. Probably still a good deal for the shop, but stupid is often expensive.
     

    Leadeye

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    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
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    .
    Depending on condition an 1894 SR carbine from 1909 is a pretty valuable Winchester.
     

    bstewrat3

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    142   0   0
    Apr 26, 2009
    1,520
    84
    Beech Grove
    If it's a family heirloom someone from the family should be given the opportunity to get the gun if possible, with the understanding that it can not be returned to the person who pawned it.
     

    croy

    Master
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    24   0   0
    Apr 22, 2012
    1,875
    48
    Indiana
    I've seen a similar situation. Customer traded a gun. Background check came back denied. Couldn't legally give him either gun. Customer became violent. Police showed up took him and his original gun.
     

    Fordtough25

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    110   1   0
    Apr 14, 2010
    6,898
    63
    Jefferson County
    Thanks for the post OP, crazy that the situation existed in the first place! Not only did the officers not understand the law, the person that pawned it didn't know felon's couldn't own firearms?! He must have "borrowed" it from a family member maybe? If it wasn't his you would think he would have said it's my sisters or something. Wow
     

    walt o

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    5   0   0
    Feb 10, 2008
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    Hammond
    Can't give the gun to a family member as that might be construed as a straw purchase . Family member did not pawn the gun so it would not be returned to the rightful owner .If they proved it was theirs the person pawning it could be arrested for theft.
    So many things to worry about ,The pawn shop has a lawyer working on what to morally do. The police are also working on what they should do.
     

    WebSnyper

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    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
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    Can't give the gun to a family member as that might be construed as a straw purchase . Family member did not pawn the gun so it would not be returned to the rightful owner .If they proved it was theirs the person pawning it could be arrested for theft.
    So many things to worry about ,The pawn shop has a lawyer working on what to morally do. The police are also working on what they should do.

    Really seems pretty cut and dry to me and you would think a pawn shop would have encountered this before, and if not, it certainly would have precedent with other pawn shops. Not sure the lawyer can help with the "morally do" part, but the legal part, yes, though it's not on the pawn shop to go to that expense now as they should have had their lawyer review their pawn contract already IMO.

    Seems if someone wanted it back in the family bad enough, they could purchase it from the pawn shop, as long as they don't give it back to the person who pawned it, and no straw purchase concerns.

    As far as the police, it seems ridiculous that they are trying to intervene in such a way that it actually put the pawn shop at some risk with federal law, vs we have a thread here about IMPD property room taking forever to return firearms to "proper" persons (not the officers themselves as we see several examples of officers trying to make sure property gets back to owners).

    Seems this would all be spelled out in the pawn contract terms and conditions.
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
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    Plainfield
    On that pawn shop show in Detroit, whoever holds the pawn ticket is the owner! No ticky no laundry!(yes purple, but I have heard about pawn tickets being purchased, and the purchaser claims the property?)
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,415
    149
    Napganistan
    About a month ago a person came into a local pawn shop and wanted to pawn his deceased fathers mod 94 SR carbine made in 1909 ,he was told that he would be required to fill out a 4473 to get his gun back ,said he will be back to clam it in 1 mo. True to his word he came back in yesterday to redeem the pawn .Was told to fill out a 4473 which he did gave it to the manager and he called it in .Atf denied it and looking over the 4473 he had checked that he was a convicted felon. Of course they would not return his gun but gave him his money back .He threw a hissey fit and wanted to call the police . This is were it gets interesting.
    Police came and listened to both sides of the story,asked the manager if he could call the ATF and have them make an exemption so the gun could be returned to the customer,manager made the call with known results.Then the police asked if they could just have the customer pay the pawn charge and then receive the gun they were told NO. They escorted the customer out who was muttering that the pawn shop was taking his gun because it was an antique.
    Can't believe that local police have NO idea of federal gun laws no wonder the background checks don't work. It's not the gun shops that should be picketed ,but enforcement branches
    Now the pawn shop is holding a firearm without any idea as to what to do with it.
    -
    You see what you did there don't you? We are not trained in Federal law since we have no power to enforce it.
     

    CraigAPS

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    3   0   0
    Jun 26, 2016
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    Muncie
    Can't give the gun to a family member as that might be construed as a straw purchase . Family member did not pawn the gun so it would not be returned to the rightful owner .If they proved it was theirs the person pawning it could be arrested for theft.
    So many things to worry about ,The pawn shop has a lawyer working on what to morally do. The police are also working on what they should do.

    Isn't asking a lawyer for "moral advice" counter-intuitive??
     

    phylodog

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    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,749
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    Arcadia
    You see what you did there don't you? We are not trained in Federal law since we have no power to enforce it.

    Beat me to it. Local law enforcement officers, as a whole, aren't any more informed on federal firearms laws than any other segment of the population. I'm completely ignorant about insider trading and interstate commerce violations as well.

    Depending on the felony, it may or may not be a violation of state law for the person to own a firearm. Could be that it wasn't a violation of state law in which case we have officers acting to try and assist a person who had lost ownership of a family heirloom firearm. How dare they.
     

    walt o

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    5   0   0
    Feb 10, 2008
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    Hammond













    The state of Indiana prohibits the possession of any firearm by an individual who is classified as a serious violent felon. ... Therefore, if you knowingly or intentionally possess a firearm, you have committed unlawful possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon.
    OH I forgot these were city police not State coppers
     
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