stupid AR "firearm" vs "handgun" question

[rvb]

It's said there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions..... so here's MY question:

handgun: no stock, no vert grip, <26"
firearm: no stock (so not a rifle), >26"

lets say I have an AR "pistol" and I want to use two uppers on it (actually, swap uppers with my SBR). one makes the pistol's OAL <26", the other >26". any reason I can't switch these back and forth at will? "handgun" one day, "firearm" the next, then back?

I know I've read "if it starts as a rifle you can never change to a pistol" or something to that affect, but I didn't recall, nor could I find via search here or on atf.gov the answer to my question. Never had an AR pistol before, so this is new to me.

thanks,

-rvb

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

If an AR lower is designated a pistol it can be changed into a rifle and back to pistol again. However a designated rifle lower can't be made into a pistol it would need to be classified as an SBR requiring all the government paperwork. Not sure on the forward grip issue. Hope this helps some.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I would get a new stripped lower. If it was transferred as a handgun, I don't believe it would be legal to convert it into a firearm.

 

[rvb]

This is a new stripped lower. Wasn’t transferred as anything. Currently building "it."

-rvb

 

[CPT Nervous]

This is a new stripped lower. Wasn’t transferred as anything. Currently building "it."

-rvb

Then you can make it into whatever you want, and you can change it back as much as you like.

 

[Tombs]

I would get a new stripped lower. If it was transferred as a handgun, I don't believe it would be legal to convert it into a firearm.

What identification do lower receivers have that differentiate handguns from rifles?

 

[MCgrease08]

I would get a new stripped lower. If it was transferred as a handgun, I don't believe it would be legal to convert it into a firearm.

What identification do lower receivers have that differentiate handguns from rifles?

It's either transfered as a "rifle" or "other". There is no designation for "pistol" or "handgun."

Any FFL worth a damn will transfer all stripped lowers as "other", but it never hurts to remind them when filling out the 4473.

 

[Ggreen]

What identification do lower receivers have that differentiate handguns from rifles?

None in Indiana, Idk if they do in states that require registration and in those states it would be trackable serial numbers I'm guessing... Some gun shops run all stripped lowers as pistols when they do the 4473 (rk requires you to be 21 in my town) I've bought from others that did not run it as a handgun so if there is guidance on transfers of lowers it is not wide spread.

You are not supposed to take a lower that has been built as a rifle and convert it to a pistol, I guess this is where integrity matters. It is enough of a hassle to swap out buffer tubes that, for me, once a rifle always a rifle. I am waiting on an sbr stamp so one of my pistol lowers will become a rifle, but I'll still have at least one dedicated pistol lower, sbr lower, and a rifle lower. The Saint pistol I was looking at last week had the same lower as it's rifle brother in the next slot.

 

[CPT Nervous]

It's either transfered as a "rifle" or "other". There is no designation for "pistol" or "handgun."

Any FFL worth a damn will transfer all stripped lowers as "other", but it never hurts to remind them when filling out the 4473.

There was a time where AR receivers were specifically manufactured as "pistols" and some manufacturers stamped them as such. Also, if the gun was sold as a handgun, then the lower bears the serial # of a handgun. If you aren't sure what your lower was transferred as, the safest bet is to buy a virgin receiver.

 

[Sling10mm]

Not a stupid question, just a question arising from the passing of stupid laws and regulations.

 

[Tombs]

None in Indiana, Idk if they do in states that require registration and in those states it would be trackable serial numbers I'm guessing... Some gun shops run all stripped lowers as pistols when they do the 4473 (rk requires you to be 21 in my town) I've bought from others that did not run it as a handgun so if there is guidance on transfers of lowers it is not wide spread.

You are not supposed to take a lower that has been built as a rifle and convert it to a pistol, I guess this is where integrity matters. It is enough of a hassle to swap out buffer tubes that, for me, once a rifle always a rifle. I am waiting on an sbr stamp so one of my pistol lowers will become a rifle, but I'll still have at least one dedicated pistol lower, sbr lower, and a rifle lower. The Saint pistol I was looking at last week had the same lower as it's rifle brother in the next slot.

If there's none, and there's no registration scheme, I don't see how this law is relevant as it's a suggestion with no means of enforcement or verification.

 

[bwframe]

This guy explains this fairly well starting at 3:30 in the vid. The whole vid is worth watching about SB Tactacle's latest and greatest new brace. I want one...

[video=youtube;o9K61hjo1Fo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9K61hjo1Fo[/video]

 

[rvb]

bump, still looking for answers re: interchangeability between AR handgun & "firearm."

All the answers so far have been about converting between pistol and rifle. I'm not looking to do that.
Appreciate folks trying to help though.

Given I couldn't find anything on atf.gov and no easy answers here or on the interwebs, I'm starting to feel my original assumptions that it doesn't matter is spot on. But common sense and gun laws have nothing to do with each other.

This guy explains this fairly well starting at 3:30 in the vid. The whole vid is worth watching about SB Tactacle's latest and greatest new brace. I want one...

also seemed to only talk about rifles vs handguns. thanks though.

-rvb

 

[MrWizard]

All the answers so far have been about converting between pistol and rifle. I'm not looking to do That.

-rvb

“Firearm”, “rifle” and “pistol” do not denote NFA regulated weapons. As long as you buy a stripped lower receiver and it is transferred as “other”, it is always “other”. You can make and remake it into any NON-NFA item without restriction. If you wanted to turn your weapon into a “SBR” or “AOW”, that is when you’d run into additional problems, because the receiver is reclassified as a “rifle” or “AOW”, and can no longer be made into a pistol or firearm.

Anyone please feel free to correct me.

 

[rvb]

So after digging some more, perhaps I should rephrase my question. I keep seeing 26", but it has to do with conceal-ability/VFGs/aow/etc. I don't care about VFGs for this application.

So.... can a "pistol" have an oal > 26", or does it not matter how big the pistol or how long it's barrel, it is still a pistol? Starting to think the 26" thing only matters when adding a VFG and it's no longer designed to be fired w/ one hand (eg a handgun)....

-rvb

 

[Tactically Fat]

So after digging some more, perhaps I should rephrase my question. I keep seeing 26", but it has to do with conceal-ability/VFGs/aow/etc. I don't care about VFGs for this application.

So.... can a "pistol" have an oal > 26", or does it not matter how big the pistol or how long it's barrel, it is still a pistol? Starting to think the 26" thing only matters when adding a VFG and it's no longer designed to be fired w/ one hand (eg a handgun)....

-rvb

I think your re-thinking is definitely along the right track. Worry not about VFGs. Put an AFG or a handstop on the uppers and call it good.

 

[Mustang1911]

Keep in mind that none of us are lawyers so we can't give legal advice. And just because somebody said it online doesn't make it true.

However if you're not worried about using a VFG, I think the only reason it would matter if it's classified as a pistol versus a firearm would be weather or not you needed to have a Handgun permit or not. I do not know of a maximum OAL or maximum barrel length for pistols. A Dessert Eagle for example has 12 or 14" barrel options, as well as some revolvers (although their OAL will be much shorter than an AR, but thats irreverent).

If it's a pistol today and a firearm tomorrow, how's anybody going to know what it was yesterday? If it was transferred on a 4473 as one or the other, that's when it would matter and when there would be a record of what it officially is.

 

[shootersix]

I think your re-thinking is definitely along the right track. Worry not about VFGs. Put an AFG or a handstop on the uppers and call it good.

that's what i'd do, do you want to run into "robby the rookie" who's trying to make a name for himself on the police department. do you want to be taken to jail, booked, only to be released with a "oops" and "i'm sorry" and "it won't happen again"

while that's a great way for "police officer training" to happen, what's your time worth?

 

[CPT Nervous]

So after digging some more, perhaps I should rephrase my question. I keep seeing 26", but it has to do with conceal-ability/VFGs/aow/etc. I don't care about VFGs for this application.

So.... can a "pistol" have an oal > 26", or does it not matter how big the pistol or how long it's barrel, it is still a pistol? Starting to think the 26" thing only matters when adding a VFG and it's no longer designed to be fired w/ one hand (eg a handgun)....

-rvb

It's a pistol if the barrel is under 16" and it doesn't have a stock. If it's under 26" OAL, it's a pistol. If it's over 26" OAL, it's still a pistol. It becomes a firearm if you put a VFG on an AR pistol that's over 26" OAL. If you put a VFG on an AR pistol that's under 26" OAL, you're a felon. Makes sense, right?

I thought I answered your question upthread, but I guess I misunderstood. If you build an AR pistol, you can put whatever upper you want on it. The only thing that will reclassify it is adding a stock or a VFG.

Let's say you have an upper with an 8" barrel on it. That's a pistol. You could change the upper for one with a 11.5" barrel. The OAL is now over 26", but it's still a pistol. You can add a VFG, making it a firearm. Take off the VFG, now it's a pistol again. Put the 8" barrel on, it's still a pistol.

 

[cbhausen]

that's what i'd do, do you want to run into "robby the rookie" who's trying to make a name for himself on the police department. do you want to be taken to jail, booked, only to be released with a "oops" and "i'm sorry" and "it won't happen again"

while that's a great way for "police officer training" to happen, what's your time worth?

In this case hopefully way more than my attorney’s...