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  1. #1
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Army *** may *** want a new sub machine gun

    Synopsis:
    [COLOR=#999999 !important]Added: May 02, 2018 3:37 pm[/COLOR]

    The US Army Contracting Command-New Jersey (ACC-NJ) on behalf of the Project Manager Soldier Weapons (PM SW), is issuing this Request for Information (RFI) to obtain information and feedback from industry regarding Sub Compact Weapons (SCW). These systems will require a potential contractor to be able to supply all components for the SCW to include the weapon and accessories.
    The Government is seeking the following information for planning purposes only.

    I. General
    1. Delivery schedule of SCW to include but not limited to functional weapon, magazines, cleaning kits, suppressors, specialized tool kit (if required), spare parts, slings, carrying cases, manuals.

    II. Ammunition for SCW - Compatibility with 9x19 mm military grade will be required.

    III. Sub Compact Weapon - The SCW will be a full/semi-automatic selectable variant that has a MIL-STD 1913 rail (Picatinny Rail).
    1. Given the conditions above, how many proposals (SCW systems) would you consider submitting?
    2. Given the possible submissions that the vendor may decide to submit please provide technical information for each sub compact weapon.
    a) Will your sub compact weapon be ambidextrous?
    b) What safety testing has been conducted on your sub compact weapon system?
    c) What is the price of your sub compact weapon and do you provide economy of scale?
    3. Where are your production facility location(s)?
    4. Please elaborate on each of these areas:
    a) Past repair/refurbishment experiences with other state or federal Government agencies
    b) Technical manual development experience
    5. What is your warranty coverage?

    IV. Submission Information

    This request for information (RFI) is for planning purposes only and does not constitute a pre-solicitation notice, and is not to be construed as a commitment by the Government. THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION AND DOES NOT OBLIGATE THE GOVERNMENT TO ISSUE A SOLICITATION. If a formal solicitation is generated at a later date, a solicitation notice will be published.Your response to this RFI will be treated as information only. No entitlement to payment of direct or indirect costs or charges by the Government will arise as a result of contractor submission of responses to this announcement or Government use of such information. Interested parties are responsible for adequately marking proprietary or competition sensitive information contained in their response. The Government may award a contract(s) on the basis of this RFI. The information provided herein is subject to change and in no way binds the Government to pursue any course of action described herein.


    https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=oppo...=core&_cview=0

  2. #2
    Sharpshooter bgcatty's Avatar

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    Government idiots in of all places New Jersey, one of the most anti 2A states in the country are going to decide which sub machine gun the military is going to evaluate and ultimately use? Are you kidding me? Seriously?

  3. #3
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Well, These are ďarmyĒ government idiots were talking about here, and pretty much every thing the army buys goes through this exact same process, for better or worse.

    Did you take note that this is being done at the request of PM Soldier Systems, which is the army general charged with acquiring All the stuff that a soldier totes around? Itís not quite just a bunch of government bureaucrats sitting in New Jersey decided to buy a new gun for the military. The fact that the contract coming in thereís a New Jersey is Really irrelevant. The people That buy Air Force planes are in Dayton, and the ones that by space here or in Los Angeles. Itís just where they are.

    More background at popular mechanics, and the firearm blog, But I donít have the links handy at the moment.

  4. #4
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    I saw the title of the thread and thought "I want a new submachine gun too!"
    INGOer #18,319

  5. #5
    Master Tombs's Avatar

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    Why is the army even considering a subgun at this point? Hasn't EVERYONE declared the subgun dead?

    You can't use it on naval ships because of the ricochet risk, the guns really aren't any smaller or lighter than 5.56 alternatives, and you're sacrificing a lot of power and range for... What exactly? Ability to suppress better?

    Subguns have their place in the civilian world, I just can't see the logistical sense for a military to use them anymore.
    "Fiat justitia ruat caelum" - Trey Gowdy

  6. #6
    Master Alamo's Avatar

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    Some possible reasons offered here;

    BACK TO SUBGUNS? US Army Releases RFI for Sub Compact Weapons - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog


    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...n-in-75-years/

    To summarize the links: the Army is moving to a heavier more powerful round for infantry rifles and light machine guns, something that might not easily scale down to a personal defense weapon size for troops that are not in line combat units or in vehicles. 9x19 mm is already in the logistics system unlike other Rounds such as 5.7mm.

    So returning to a WWII-like spectrum of individual weapons.

    Note that this is a request for information, not a solicitation. A lot of RFIs are put out to gather information and never turn into an actual acquisition.

  7. #7
    Ark
    Ark is offline
    Marksman Ark's Avatar

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    Honestly, I've learned not to believe anything I read regarding Army procurement until actual guns are in the hands of actual soldiers. 'Member OICW? 'Member ACR? I 'member.

  8. #8
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar

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    Bring back the old MAC-10. Cheap, reliable and brutally effective at close range.
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

    Marvin the Martian

  9. #9
    Plinker CallSign Snafu's Avatar

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    Just go with the P90. Don't worry about the 9mm part, FN already makes our Machine guns and GI rifles. 9mm ball ammo sucks and while I have heard rumors, I am pretty sure that the Army is not going to be loading those mags with 9mm +P+ bonded hollow points for our guys and gals. I for one would not welcome the prospect of U.S. service members carrying around 9mm ball ammo in their weapons. The 5.7 is a proven intermediate to close range round, and the FN platform for it is good. You shouldn't spend too much time caring about whats in your pistol and the 2-3 mags you're carrying for it. When men with rifles are coming for you, you are probably not worried about whats in your pistol because if it comes to that it's probably going to be another one of those days.
    "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat!?!?!"

  10. #10
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by CallSign Snafu View Post
    Just go with the P90.
    I'd be surprised if they went with the P90. A lot of departments/agencies/units that adopted it and then actually shot people with it dumped it. Major SWAT teams, federal tactical teams, SOF units, etc. The general consensus was clear. It's controllable in full auto and it's accurate, but it takes a lot of hits to stop someone if you don't get a brain shot. Terminal ballistics were very poor, as was performance after some intermediate barriers.

    For a general issue gun were not a lot of training will take place, maybe the ease of recoil control would outweigh it's lack of terminal effect, but I doubt the Army goes down that road again.
    L'otters are not afraid.

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