I need to hypothetically get this off my chest...

[HKUSP]

We all know someone like this, hypothetically. I need to toss this scenario out into the realm of the fine collection of minds we have here on INGO not only to make myself feel better but to check my head just in case I happen to be wrong.

As I understand Federal laws regarding handgun transfers, there is absolutely no such thing as a private transfer across a state line. It doesn't matter if you're family. If I am wrong then please just shut me down now.

So... hypothetically... there is someone that I may or may not know that visited a range out of state with family that lives in that state. They saw a handgun in the case that they wanted. The family member that lives in Stateasota buys the handgun on a 4473 and then hands it right over to the hypothetical person who does not live in Stateasota. This happens right in front of the FFL, with
the FFL's blessing, and with the assurance it's all above board if they write out a receipt for it.

My head nearly exploded when I heard this story. I would have been really offended if they would have acted like I was the idiot when I hypothetically told them that was a federal felony. If that had indeed happened.... which it didn't. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

I have also warned them, for instance, that privately buying guns off of family members and bringing them back more than once is the same sort of no no, and perhaps also bringing back a free handgun an ex-spouse gave them is also potentially a really stupid idea. A first year law student could put a papertrail together on this if there's ever an issue with any of these guns and the numbers get ran on them.

I hope I'm wrong and there's a carve out. I'm willing to bet I'm not wrong, however.

This concludes my confessional, hypothetical unburdening. What say you, INGO?

 

[223 Gunner]

It sounds like the FFL wanted to make a sale.

 

[churchmouse]

It sounds like the FFL wanted to make a sale.

My thoughts.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, you want a whole list of the felonies or just the top five, including misprison?

 

[HKUSP]

So, you want a whole list of the felonies or just the top five, including misprison?

It would be quite entertaining for me to read over and over again in my smug satisfaction. Yes, please, if it's not too much trouble.

 

[phylodog]

I tend to keep my mouth closed unless it involves firearms going to known prohibited persons. Handguns cross state lines all the time. If I pack up and move to Florida guess what is coming with me? All of my handguns. If Florida's firearms laws are the same as Indiana's guess what I can do once I live there? Sell one of them in a Walmart parking lot with zero receipt. The result is a handgun which has crossed state lines lawfully with zero paper trail. I'm not advocating that people willfully disregard firearms laws but I don't lose sleep over the type of situation you're talking about either. I've informed more than a few people of firearms laws, what they do with that information is on them.

 

[cosermann]

... As I understand Federal laws regarding handgun transfers, there is absolutely no such thing as a private transfer across a state line. It doesn't matter if you're family. ...

The only exception I know of is bequeathed/inherited firearms. But it has nothing to do with your example. Jfyi.

 

[ATM]

There's nothing inherently wrong with anything they did


...only that it is prohibited by bad law.

 

[Dead Duck]

Score!

So, what gun did you get?

 

[HKUSP]

I tend to keep my mouth closed unless it involves firearms going to known prohibited persons. Handguns cross state lines all the time. If I pack up and move to Florida guess what is coming with me? All of my handguns. If Florida's firearms laws are the same as Indiana's guess what I can do once I live there? Sell one of them in a Walmart parking lot with zero receipt. The result is a handgun which has crossed state lines with zero paper trail. I'm not advocating that people willfully disregard firearms laws but I don't lose sleep over the type of situation you're talking about either. I've informed more than a few people of firearms laws, what they do with that information is on them.

I agree. That's legal, and I brought my guns with me when I moved here as well. Here's my point. If there's a problem with one of the guns in question it's pretty darn easy to connect the dots. Gun sold originally in Stateasota in 2018 to a relative of current possessor who has never lived in Stateasota, and is married to buyer's relative who has not been a resident of Stateasota for over five years. Everyone goes to jail.

 

[phylodog]

Everyone could theoretically jail.

Fixed it for you based on a pretty decent amount of experience attempting to get firearms violations prosecuted at the federal level. Maybe if there were a pattern of these firearms finding their way into the hands of felons or something but a handgun transferred across state lines by family members who aren't prohibited? Highly unlikely. That doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't mean you're wrong for correcting them but I wouldn't lose sleep over it either.

 

[HKUSP]

There's nothing inherently wrong with anything they did


...only that it is prohibited by bad law.

I agree with that assessment as well. There is nothing nefarious going on here. No one is running guns for a cartel. I think, I just take offense when they look at me like I'm stupid when I tell them in rather harsh language what hypothetically happened.

 

[HKUSP]

Fixed it for you based on a pretty decent amount of experience attempting to get firearms violations prosecuted at the federal level.

Thanks! Hypothetically speaking.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Did you hear this Story at a Gun Store?

 

[Fallschirmjaeger]

Fixed it for you based on a pretty decent amount of experience attempting to get firearms violations prosecuted at the federal level. Maybe if there were a pattern of these firearms finding their way into the hands of felons or something but a handgun transferred across state lines by family members who aren't prohibited? Highly unlikely. That doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't mean you're wrong for correcting them but I wouldn't lose sleep over it either.

Absolutely right. Just because a federal law is on the books doesnt't mean it gets charged or prosecuted often or even at all, depending on the particular federal geographical jurisdiction. The feds have their hands full going after felons possessing or otherwise misusing firearms, and only rarely go after non-felons for firearm offenses (think straw purchases, NFA, or import/export violations). Or so I've heard from people in a position to know.....

 

[HKUSP]

Did you hear this Story at a Gun Store?

No, I did not. Due to the length of my stay here and my lack of causing trouble, I actually take offense at the notion.

 

[HKUSP]

Absolutely right. Just because a federal law is on the books doesnt't mean it gets charged or prosecuted often or even at all, depending on the particular federal geographical jurisdiction. The feds have their hands full going after felons possessing or otherwise misusing firearms, and only rarely go after non-felons for firearm offenses (think straw purchases, NFA, or import/export violations). Or so I've heard from people in a position to know.....

I agree. My point is, if you know someone who ought to know better, and has been warned multiple times not to do something illegal, there comes a point where you just lose it when they keep making the same error. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

[HKUSP]

I might need to clarify something here. I'm not aghast that this may or may not have happened. My girlfriend lives out of state. I've purchased her several firearms as gifts. In every single instance I have personally transported the firearm in question out to her town and marched her to the local gun shop to do a proper transfer. I have done the very same with my own patents, who do not live in Indiana. I care enough about all of them to make sure there's nothing illegal about the transfer so if there ever is a reason to run the numbers it is all above board.
Do I think this is all silly? Absolutely. It needs changed. Until the day that happens, I will not expose myself or anyone I care about to a potential 10 years in the slammer. I don't understand why other "gun people" just act like it's not a big deal.