plastic 870 trigger guard.. Whats the big deal? Your pistols are plastic framed?

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  • SPOOK331945

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    I'm no expert in Remington firearms (or any firearms for that matter) but I know my way around their shotguns pretty well...I will say this, me personally I haven't had the chance to really compared both the aluminum/steel (I've seen both) and plastic trigger guards but I'd imagine the design hasn't changed, just materials...

    Ya ya I get it.. They got cheap on us and I'm not thrilled about it either... But I'm willing to bet that most that are "really" complaining about it own or carry some form of polymer framed handgun... Why can your handguns frame be plastic but not your 870s trigger guard?? Lil bit of pot vs. kettle there :stickpoke:

    Whats yalls thoughts? Me I own several polymer framed handguns, and many other guns that have some "plastic" component on it somewhere so I'm not going to complain too much. Other than gee thanks Remington:ugh: . Not my taste but whatever, everything is going that route anyways. For the most part...

    I have not done any kind of torture test on them or that much research on it either when it comes to comparing the two. Just kicking the hornets nest here wanted to here some opinions other than your just don't like it.
     

    masterdekoy

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    There are different grades of plastic. I believe the ones being used in the trigger guards are of lesser quality than the plastic used in pistol frames. More prone to cracks/breaks.

    that being said I own a Mossberg 500 and it has the plastic trigger group. I don’t notice an appreciable difference as far as function goes. The metal group in the 590 does “feel” a little nicer though.
     

    Herr Vogel

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    that being said I own a Mossberg 500 and it has the plastic trigger group. I don’t notice an appreciable difference as far as function goes. The metal group in the 590 does “feel” a little nicer though.

    Note that it'sonly the 590A1 that has the milled aluminum trigger group. The one on my 590 is plastic.
    On one hand it pains my autism, but on the other hand, how many rounds am I going to have to put through it before the difference in resilience becomes apparent? I figure if and when it does break, then I'll replace it.
     

    SPOOK331945

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    There are different grades of plastic. I believe the ones being used in the trigger guards are of lesser quality than the plastic used in pistol frames. More prone to cracks/breaks.


    Im well aware of the different kinds of plastics. I’m a Tool maker by trade and work with plastic injection molds everyday. Not meaning that in a rude way just stating.. please excuse if it sounds as if. I AM NOT an expert in the field by any means either lol but have a fair amount of “exposure.” More curious as to why some make such a fit about it for something that most likely won’t affect its reliability.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    More curious as to why some make such a fit about it for something that most likely won’t affect its reliability.

    You answered your own question early on:
    They got cheap on us and I'm not thrilled about it either

    Why aren't you thrilled about it? Why are walnut stocks a thing? It's not always about reliability alone, aesthetics and perception of quality can enter the equation when deciding what to buy.

    I don't know how the current Wingmasters compare to the "golden era" guns in terms of quality, bluing, wood, etc, but nostalgia often enters these conversations as well.
     

    Sniper 79

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    The trigger guards are cheap low grade plastic. They crack and bust not to mention look like crap. Now if they were made out of high impact type stuff like my Glock it would be no problem.
     

    Drail

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    In my experience and the experience of other smiths I know the plastic trigger guards are actually stronger than the original pot metal ones. It's not a high stress part anyway. On my personal 870 from 1990 the plastic is still in perfect shape but I would be happier if it was made of steel. And to the OP - "Your pistols are plastic framed?" NONE of my pistols are plastic framed.
     
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    DoggyDaddy

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    Mossberg was using plastic trigger guards on their .22s back in the 40's. I've heard of some of them breaking, but there are a lot of intact ones still out there after 70+ years.
     

    thunderchicken

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    You answered your own question early on:

    Why aren't you thrilled about it? Why are walnut stocks a thing? It's not always about reliability alone, aesthetics and perception of quality can enter the equation when deciding what to buy.

    I don't know how the current Wingmasters compare to the "golden era" guns in terms of quality, bluing, wood, etc, but nostalgia often enters these conversations as well.

    Because shotguns should have beautiful walnut stocks and deep pristine bluing with that classic gold plated trigger...get one with some really nice engraving on the reciever if you really want to wow the guys at the trap range. But if it's for general purpose use, well just ride 'er till she bucks ya and then replace the broken trigger guard. Point is even though there are exceptions for the most part there are two types work horses and show horses just depends which one you want. Personally on a lower priced shotgun I really don't have much concern about trigger guard material and not too concerned about its aesthetics either as its needs to be a work horse
     

    Chance

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    Plastic 870 trigger guard

    The trigger guards are cheap low grade plastic. They crack and bust not to mention look like crap. Now if they were made out of high impact type stuff like my Glock it would be no problem.


    A little on modern engineered thermoplastics. Rigid is not necessarily the best characteristic. Aluminum or pot metal do not have near the impact resistance or flexural strength of the glass reinforced thermoplastics use in firearms today. As far as cost goes, both aluminum and cast steel are much cheaper than engineered plastics (aluminum @ $ 0.60 a pound and plastics at $6.00 to $10.00 a pound). The savings is all in the labor (machining). Modern plastic parts are molded to exact size in most cases. And a cast part requires a lot of expensive machining time. Source-experience as a product development engineer for 30 years.
     
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    Hookeye

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    The old alloy ones......annoying when it has that shiny spot on the triggerguard and looks like new everywhere else.
    Touch it up, looks OK........but soon its shiny again.

    Not a slam..........but tool maker isn't the same as material science.

    BTW.........gold triggers look like crap. But then rusty blued ones kinda suck too.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Point is even though there are exceptions for the most part there are two types work horses and show horses just depends which one you want.

    Compare a early 80s or earlier standard 870 with the "Wingmaster" of today. (Note that early on ALL 870s used to be Wingmasters). The wood and bluing of the "work horse" was better than today's "show horse", even before you got into the fancy trap guns.

    Note the "standard":
    870_-_014.jpg


    vs today's so-called "Wingmaster"

    96927_1.jpg
     

    Chance

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    In response to the "torture testing" there is a standard impact test that is done for materials. It involves using a 1 pound steel ball (slightly larger that a golf ball) and dropping it onto the part from a distance of 1 meter (about 3 feet). I wouldn't recommend trying this with your steel or aluminum parts. Plastics have come a very long way. Modern plastics allow for thinner and lighter parts and also for a lot more design flexibility. Typically the cost of a part is 80% material and 20% labor. That is why being able to make a finished part from a mold is the future of many products.
     

    jinks

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    Mossberg was using plastic trigger guards on their .22s back in the 40's. I've heard of some of them breaking, but there are a lot of intact ones still out there after 70+ years.

    I replaced a plastic trigger guard on a Mossberg 44US(a) because it would not fit after it was removed. The trigger guard had shrunk over the years but the screws held it in the in-letting. I could not flex it enough for it to fit again. Fortunately Havilin Sales has a lot of old and reproduction Mossberg parts.
     

    Hookeye

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    I had a Special Field, like new (except for white line on side of trigger guard).
    Those little 20 ga are stupid price these days.

    Dislike the look of the new alloy trigger guards.......fat behind trigger.
    Picked up a beater 1100 with new trigger group in it (plus other parts)............whoever worked on it didn't catch the interrupter missing the snap ring LOL
     

    SPOOK331945

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    The trigger guards are cheap low grade plastic. They crack and bust not to mention look like crap. Now if they were made out of high impact type stuff like my Glock it would be no problem.

    out of curiousity what’s your source that it is a low grade plastic vs your glock?
     

    SPOOK331945

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    Not a slam..........but tool maker isn't the same as material science.

    most definitely not, but there must be some foundation for metallurgy and engineering materials for a Tool Maker. Plus got a Engineering degree too boot. Once again not an expert in any field but I manage haha.
     

    SPOOK331945

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    Some very valid points gents...

    I also agree the plastic trigger guard was a much cheaper manufacturing solution. Machine a few molds to make a few thousand parts vs. machine each individual part? Definitely a no brainer there when it comes to cost effectiveness.

    Another factor that I believe plays a huge role in the above example. Along with the differnces of quality in the different grades have changed over the years is the lack of skilled trades men.

    I read a very interesting article when it came to manufacturing last year. Companies can’t find Tool Makers and machinist anymore to manufacture products of that “quality” like they did in the 50s and 60s... they seak cheaper, faster ways to manufacture products because they literally don’t have the hands to do it. Most of the skilled work force now are getting ready to retire in the next 5-10 years. Here’s one very interesting article similar to what I said above. Picking this trade may literally pay off one day...

    Tool and Die Makers, OEMS Gather for Crisis Meeting | Workforce Shortage | IndustryWeek
     

    Sniper 79

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    out of curiousity what’s your source that it is a low grade plastic vs your glock?

    Being in the field using my gear. I have two Marlin rifles sitting here with busted trigger guards. They have lived a easy life.

    I beat the **** out of my Glock. Rinse all the mud off of it with a garden hose and it looks like new! Hit it with compressed air and it goes back in the holster for another day.

    Those plastic guards are cheap crap. Just replaced one on my Savage with an after market metal one.

    As far as shot guns go ditched the 870 for a Benelli Nova. It's a lot of plastic but its like the Glock of shotguns. It takes a beating and keeps on popping. I don't have to worry about it. It's a higher grade for sure.

    Now if they made those cheap ones out of Glock type material it would outlast the gun
     
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