Let's hear from our INGO LEOs on this- more paperwork

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  • HoughMade

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    eldirector

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    I would hope this is "no big deal", meaning.... they aren't pointing guns at people unless they are doing something that would require a fair amount of paperwork anyway (like, arresting someone).

    Though, this is Chicago. According to the TV, Chicago PD runs around with guns drawn all the time.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Depends. 30 second checkbox form vs 30 minutes of paperwork matters. Plus, is pointing the same as pulling? If I pull from my holster but hold it at low ready, is that a "point" for paperwork?
     

    Leadeye

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    Private contractors that keep city records for a fee maybe? It is Chicago we're talking about.
     

    Mgderf

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    How long before an officer reports "pointing" his firearm but not shooting is charged with intimidation?
    This s a legal trap.
    I'm not sure how, but it feels like a trap.
     

    Alamo

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    Depends. 30 second checkbox form vs 30 minutes of paperwork matters. Plus, is pointing the same as pulling? If I pull from my holster but hold it at low ready, is that a "point" for paperwork?

    You pointed it at the ground, dincha? Maybe they'll have an app for their phones.
     

    Hop

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    Depends. 30 second checkbox form vs 30 minutes of paperwork matters. Plus, is pointing the same as pulling? If I pull from my holster but hold it at low ready, is that a "point" for paperwork?

    Maybe just install one of those people counters onto the holster. Pull, increment... :):
     

    Hawkeye

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    ...

    Though, this is Chicago. According to the TV, Chicago PD runs around with guns drawn all the time.

    Years ago, when I lived at Kedzie & Fullerton, I had a Chicago cop (white shirt variety) point one at me. I was out walking our dog and taking the trash out. He was prowling around our gangway apparently loving for a fleeing felon...


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    BehindBlueI's

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    Only in Chicago...........

    Nah, they are late to the party on that. LEOs on the coasts in various departments already have to do a use of force special for even pulling their gun. It gets people hurt because they don't pull when they should, like searching a building, because they don't want to do the paperwork.
     

    jerrob

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    Where in Chicago is ANYONE pulling a gun and just pointing it?
    I'm in Valpo every weekend and WGN hasn't mentioned it once.
    At the rate they're killing each other, there wont be anyone left for the police to point weapons at.
    Problem solved...........Zero paperwork.
     
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    Hawkeye

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    Where in Chicago is ANYONE pulling a gun and just pointing it?
    I'm in Valpo every weekend and WGN hasn't mentioned it once.
    At the rate they're killing each other, there wont be anyone left for the police to point weapons at.
    Problem solved...........Zero paperwork.

    Nope. Lots of paperwork on homicides. Don’t forget. The cops role in reporting...


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    Tyler-The-Piker

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    ><(((((*>
    bobhoskinsbrazil.jpg
     

    LCSOSgt11

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    Well, we don't have that many incidents where an officer points a firearm at someone. With that said, if the incident is of sufficient seriousness, then yes, they would make a case report, and in the narrative explain what happened.

    Chicago is a different story. I'm surprised that a lot of the officers there don't walk around with their duty weapon in their hand. This may be an off-handed way to get more of their officers into some sort of trouble, however, I did watch the Chicago news last night, and this "policy" not only involves making a report, but contacting a supervisor either prior to or during the incident to get approval (or some such silliness) to point a weapon at someone.

    If that is the case, then this policy needs to go bye-bye. The inmates are running the asylum. In fact, one of the mayoral candidates who was on some sort of police commission in Chicago, commented that the policy does not go far enough. So one could guess how this candidate would treat the PD.

    There is this to consider...this consent decree was produced by Lisa Madigan's office, and apparently at the start of the new year, she is leaving her position. When the mayoral election is concluded, one could figure that Johnson will be out as Chief. So, potentially a new Mayor and/or Chief could deep six the decree in part or whole.

    Of course, this is Democrat-run Chicago. The police there will be hosed. There is another alternative, however. That would be to evacuate every law abiding citizen there, wall off the entire city leaving the criminals and the politicians to fend for themselves. The issues would be resolved in short order.
     

    Denny347

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    My first dept required a use of force report for every time the pistol cleared the holster regardless if someone was present. Clear a building with your gun out...report...ugh.
     

    Alamo

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    ..

    If that is the case, then this policy needs to go bye-bye. The inmates are running the asylum. In fact, one of the mayoral candidates who was on some sort of police commission in Chicago, commented that the policy does not go far enough. So one could guess how this candidate would treat the PD.

    ...

    IIRC the police had no input on the negotiations about the decree. No FOP, not the chief, etc. The cops in Chicago are not exactly blameless, they have pulled some pretty boneheaded stunts, but as far as cops pointing their gun at somebody: in 2017 the police killed 11 and wounded 12. Citizens defending themselves killed 12 and wounded 9. Total shot & killed was 625, wounded 2936. Clearly cops (and lawful defenders) are the problem.
     

    Hohn

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    I feel for the cops that must bear the burden of the legal results of some other cop making a mistake.

    Politicians can't resist a new rule that lets them appear to do something while someone else must bear all the cost. Hopefully the cost paid by LEO isn't a life. There's always more paper.
     

    russc2542

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    I feel for the cops that must bear the burden of the legal results of some other cop making a mistake.

    Politicians can't resist a new rule that lets them appear to do something while someone else must bear all the cost. Hopefully the cost paid by LEO isn't a life. There's always more paper.

    Someone does something stupid and the the already good-minded and law-abiding folks get punished by more rules. Sounds like the story of everything everywhere.
     

    Tactical Flannel

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    I'm of the opinion it depends on the amount of paperwork.
    If it's just adding two lines to the CAD or dispatch narrative of the call, print and give to a supervisor, no big deal. Documented.
    If it's draw a case report number, write the 15-20 minute report, then get a special use of force form to fill out with same information, scan and attach to case report, then print it and leave copies with the Supervisor, training Sgt, firearms Sgt, Detectives Divison... it would become very cummbersome. And that would be for where the Police are clearing an abandoned building of a neighbor reported suspicious person and finding some homeless guy squatting for shelter as one possible situation.
    Then add to it if there was a criminal arrest where there is a probable cause affidavit, a court appearance form, a bookin information sheet for the jail and potentially tagging evidence and associated forms for tracking and chain of custody.
    Sooooo adding another layer of paperwork just increases the amount of time an officer is not out and available for calls. I guess it all depends on the value of the additional paperwork...
    Just my opinion of course.

    Stay safe
     

    MarkC

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    My first dept required a use of force report for every time the pistol cleared the holster regardless if someone was present. Clear a building with your gun out...report...ugh.

    Same here.... respond to an alarm with a drawn weapon.... report.

    When I retired four years ago, no report needed unless actual force was used or the weapon was discharged. We had even gone so far as to create a simpler, straightforward report for destroying injured animals.
     
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