Non-firearm weapons question/considerations

[Notalentbum]

Here at work, not allowed to have a firearm and not worth risking the loss of job to have one regardless of the rules, what are some reasonable substitutes? I have to attend an Active Shooter presentation later today and it got me thinking about my options beyond the “run, hide, fight” that I’ve seen in previous presentations.
Beyond just a blade, I’ve not come up with any great ideas and against a gun, a blade isn’t much of a choice.

Ideas?

Sorry if this isn’t the correct forum but I didn’t really feel it fit anywhere else either.

Matt

 

[T.Lex]

Be fit. With a blade.

You might be surprised at how effective a knife attack from concealment/cover can be.

Granted, it is not the ideal scenario, but I think that's the kind of thing you're looking for.

 

[Expat]

Are you allowed to have pepper spray or mace?

 

[Notalentbum]

Be fit. With a blade.

You might be surprised at how effective a knife attack from concealment/cover can be.

Granted, it is not the ideal scenario, but I think that's the kind of thing you're looking for.

Your first statement is the killer for many of us. While I’m not in perfect shape, at 59, I don’t have near the speed and strength I did just a few years ago.
While I agree that blade isn’t ideal, I think I will pick up a fixed blade just to keep at hand while at work.

Matt

 

[KittySlayer]

I have to attend an Active Shooter presentation later today and it got me thinking about my options beyond the “run, hide, fight” that I’ve seen in previous presentations.

Really put the presenter on the hot seat and ask multiple "what if" questions. When given lame answers that fit inside the company policy then ask the questions:

"So our employer wants us disarmed but really has no plan to protect us?"
"The only plan is to mitigate potential liability and mop up the blood afterwards?"
"What tools (weapons) do you use at home to protect the ones you love?"

I carry at work and am the first person called when someone sketchy walks into the lobby. If one of the liberal sheep ever ask me not to carry my response will be the quote from Sonny in the Godfather, "Hey, listen, I want somebody good, and I mean very good, to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that bathroom with just his ____ in his hands, alright?" None of the liberal sheep are ready to face anyone in the lobby. In fact one sheep was at work over the weekend and was concerned because someone scary was in the parking lot, so he hid until the bad guy left.

When seconds matter the police are only minutes away.

 

[T.Lex]

Your first statement is the killer for many of us. While I’m not in perfect shape, at 59, I don’t have near the speed and strength I did just a few years ago.
While I agree that blade isn’t ideal, I think I will pick up a fixed blade just to keep at hand while at work.

Matt

Yeah, I'm not that far behind you in age, I think it is about maximizing our own individual potential. Am I as fast as I was even 5 years ago? No. But, with the help of adrenaline, I think I can be "fast enough" for as long as I need to.

The list of "nightmare scenarios" increases the older I get. But, we can still plan for those scenarios that we can be effective, while accepting there may be more that go badly for us.

 

[Usmccookie]

I'm in the same boat. I also have been spending a lot of work hours in ch!(@go. I find that a good knife is usually our best option. Second best would be pepper spray in conjunction with a knife. I would suggest the Kimber Pepperblaster 2. It handles and carries like a .380 pocket pistol. Stay in fighting condition, guns make it easy to be able to defend yourself with "minimum" physical effort. Fighting takes a lot of effort that most criminals don't care to train for. Lastly, the most important thing to have is good situational awareness. I try to keep track of different items within my reach that would make for a decent weapon. I am an electrician so there are plenty of options always around.

I am currently working out of southside chicago on nights. I tend to be off work around 9pm and am usually working alone or with 1-2 other guys. Carrying $1000's of dollars in tools. This is a subject I am very conscious about since my indiana ltc isn't even worth the paper it's printed on in the most dangerous city in the country.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You can certainly be effective without a gun vs an active shooter, but you have a lot less options. A lot will depend on where you work, what the layout is, etc. Wide open bay vs lots of hiding places, availability of makeshift weapons (do you have more access to keyboards or 5' steel pipes?), etc.

Always be thinking of where the exits are, where makeshift weaponry is, where choke points are, etc.

When I worked IT and we had an ex-employee go off the rails and start making death threats that the company took seriously enough to hire an off duty police officer to sit in the parking lot, I started carrying regardless of the rules. I worked in a rat warren of concealment but very little cover. At first I off body carried in a laptop bag, but then started using a Smart Carry. Everyone has to make their own risk/reward decision but with a specific and credible threat I was more worried about needing a gun then getting fired.

 

[63PGP]

In addition to the other rec's I'd add something to get you through doors or windows. I have this with long leather boot laces for additional grip.

https://www.amazon.com/Stiletto-SSCLW12-2-Stainless-Clawbar-Dimpler/dp/B00KJ63SQS

My preference for pepper spray is UDAP Bear Spray.



Mike

 

[KittySlayer]

A lot will depend on where you work, what the layout is, etc. Wide open bay vs lots of hiding places...

Always be thinking of where the exits are...

I am sure the presenter will emphasize run, hide and not so much fight.

When the presenter emphasizes run to the nearest exit raise your hand and ask if you can have your workstation moved to the nearest exit. Others in the audience may also request the same special treatment. Suddenly it becomes awkward for the presenter.

When the presenter emphasized hide and illustrates the difference between concealment and cover ask for your workstation to be moved closer to the building feature that offers cover. This assumes he actually knows what the difference is and explains the difference.

 

[T.Lex]

When the presenter emphasizes run to the nearest exit raise your hand and ask if you can have your workstation moved to the nearest exit. Others in the audience may also request the same special treatment. Suddenly it becomes awkward for the presenter.

Ooooh. That's subversive. Rep inbound.

ETA:
Dammit Janet, the rep presenters are refusing to take comments on your post from me. Next time.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I am sure the presenter will emphasize run, hide and not so much fight.

When the presenter emphasizes run to the nearest exit raise your hand and ask if you can have your workstation moved to the nearest exit. Others in the audience may also request the same special treatment. Suddenly it becomes awkward for the presenter.

When the presenter emphasized hide and illustrates the difference between concealment and cover ask for your workstation to be moved closer to the building feature that offers cover. This assumes he actually knows what the difference is and explains the difference.

Do whatever you're big enough to get away with. I just kept my mouth shut, didn't draw attention to myself, and put a gun in my pants. If you think you're in a position to change policy by making noise, the consideration may change. I knew I wasn't, so I was just another guy going along with the program as far as anyone else was concerned.

 

[Hawkeye]

How about a cane?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Do whatever you're big enough to get away with. I just kept my mouth shut, didn't draw attention to myself, and put a gun in my pants. If you think you're in a position to change policy by making noise, the consideration may change. I knew I wasn't, so I was just another guy going along with the program as far as anyone else was concerned.

/thread.

 

[Leadeye]

SA is the best thing you can have, weapon or not.

 

[fullmetaljesus]

i ponder this a lot as well. i have a gov job, so its against the rules to carry, plus my parking garage is techincally part of the gov center so i believe its illegal for me to carry there.... kinda in a bind on this one. At current i keep my eye on the doors, and keep my cold steal knife on me at all times.

 

[actaeon277]

Do whatever you're big enough to get away with. I just kept my mouth shut, didn't draw attention to myself, and put a gun in my pants. If you think you're in a position to change policy by making noise, the consideration may change. I knew I wasn't, so I was just another guy going along with the program as far as anyone else was concerned.

Since it seems so many of our meetings at work are on overtime, and since everyone is jammed with overtime whether they want it or not, people get very unhappy when questions are asked.
Especially since nothing gets done about any questions anyway.

 

[Libertarian01]

If'n yer really gutsy, have about seven (7) or eight (8) spouses of like-minded coworkers call in and ask the presenter from HR they heard about the meeting and want to clarify EXACTLY what the company is ACTIVELY doing to protect their loved ones.

At the end they can ask which law firm the company uses, " 'cause if you're not going to do squat AND you're denying our loved ones the ability to protect themselves, our attorney will know where to direct the civil lawsuit and put you out of business."

Just a thought...

Doug

 

[Notalentbum]

The presentation was much better than the usual work related program!
It was hosted by a Detective Spurgeon from IMPD southwest district. Not exactly run hide fight but similar. Quite a bit of additional info regarding mental states of people under stress and how to control it. Also good info on your behavior as police are entering as they are under quite a bit of stress as well.
Went over several incidents from last several years and the things people did well at and the poor choices they made. A decent introduction to situational awareness and habits many of us here know but the public in general are clueless about.

Well worth the 2 1/2 hours.

Also so remembered I had a couple Kabars in bottom of my gun safe. I stuck one in my lunch bag to take to work.

Matt

 

[minuteman32]

What about something like this; https://www.thepocketshot.com/faq.html ?