Where is "gun collecting" headed?

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  • Mongo59

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    Have you noticed that all the rage today seems to be totally caught up with weapons that are black? There are those who go in for the desert tan, red white and blue, pink and ones the color of a June bug as well. I pose the question of where this leaves all the beautiful natural wood and metal guns of the past. Guns that were intentionally made to be better and not just made cheaper than the competition.
    This is not intended to be an "us v. them" or cause conflict in any way, I just want to stir our thoughts as to the direction things are headed. Are we to the time where the auctions of collections in the past we once looked forward to are no longer to be auctionable unless you give them a going over with a black paint bomb?
    It is a consumer driven market and manufacturers only make the things that sell and I don't wish to lay this at their feet. But do you think this is a fad or is it here to stay?
     

    Beowulf

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    If you are asking whether "black" or "plastic" guns are here to stay, the answer is yes. Wood and steel is expensive compared to polymer, and in some cases, isn't as resilient and is certainly heavier. Now, don't get me wrong, I love wooden stocked guns. I have a whole bunch of nice, older, wooden stocked military guns in my collection.

    But, take a look at the world's militaries. No wood to be seen in the West at all and even in the old Sov Block areas, the "wood" (or compressed sawdust and epoxy) is giving way to polymer. The way the military goes is the way the civilian market will follow. Polymer accoutered guns are lighter and you don't have to worry about the wood warping in weather.

    Adding to that, nice wood has gotten extremely expensive as a lot of the old growth wood has been used up and the new growth isn't anywhere near the quality. I just had a conversation with a carpenter and furniture restorer about this yesterday. He was complaining about the width of the growth rings in new growth wood (as the trees grown for harvest are grown much faster, with much thicker growth rings for the size than old wood). The wood is less sturdy and has different properties than old/slow growth wood. On top of that, the pool of people who have the skills to work it properly are shrinking. Skill wood workers and machinists are giving way to injection molding polymers and CNC machines.

    Will there still be a market for nice, wood stocked, firearms? Yup. But it will be a high end item. The guns Joe Bluecollar (his buddy Steve MiddletoLowerWhitecollar) will be carrying at the range and into the field are going to be wearing plastic.
     

    indiucky

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    When I opened my shop with an intent to cater to folks that like older, classic firearms I thought my customers would be guys my age and older...It turned out to not be the case....Most of my customers liking the older guns are in their 20's...There seems to be an about face among the younger generation that seems to be in rebellion against MIM and plastic guns...

    IMHO and my observation in my shop....

    I've got an SVT 40 that came in yesterday with an SA stamp....Every twenty something that came in knew what it was and wanted to coon finger it....The older guys? Not so much...
     

    yetti462

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    Changing times and personal preference. Look at s&w sales after Dirty Harry. I'd rather have a bunch of no lock Smith's than plastic slide actions. I'm not knocking black guns, I have several, but prefer a Smith.

    The only old growth used in firearm production would be on Pioneer era muzzleloader s.
     

    Libertarian01

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    Every rifle in my collection, save one (1), is wood and steel. I love the olde world look and feel. While all rifles have had many parts manufactured by machine, the wood has the feel of old world craftsmanship, and individual provenance on a repaired wooden stock is something to see how they fitted it. Damage to plastic? Just remove and replace, no skill involved.

    As to Indiucky's comment, I wonder how many of the older guys were raised in a generation that considered bubba-ing a rifle as an improvement?:xmad: I have an NRA publication from 1962 that promotes chopping up a beautiful war relic to "improve" it for hunting! I wonder how many more mature gentlemen consider this a good thing, or at least not a bad thing? I once met a guy who was looking to trade his old K-98 Mauser for an M1 Garand. I brought mine over and we looked at each others gun. We both agreed - the other guy had a butt ugly rifle! He hated that mine was untouched and in original configuration, with no sanding or polishing of the stock. I hated that his K-98 had a cut down stock, and was drilled & tapped for a civilian hunting scope!:( There was no trade.

    Everything young people have today is mass produced, everything. Perhaps they will begin to appreciate the hand crafted glory of the older, beautiful firearms that our grandparents took for granted.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Ark

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    Eh. I'm 50/50 cool old guns and practical modern tools in my personal hoard.

    The fact is that milsurps and wood 'n steel heirloom guns are exploding in price and are rapidly headed out of reach of younger gun owners. It's exactly what happened with cars: White dudes hit their 50s and 60s, have money to burn, and start bidding up the stuff they're nostalgic for until they're the only ones who can afford it anymore. That's why Garands cost $1,200 on the secondary market.

    It's not that younger people don't appreciate hand crafted quality. We can't afford it, and buying practical tools takes priority over safe queens.
     

    churchmouse

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    I had 1 safe full of wood and steel and another full of the modern offering 7 years ago. When I retired (7 years ago) I sold off all the classic wood stocked pieces and a few of the black offerings to replace all the appliances in the house. Prep for retirement. I have had a few classics since but they just do not have a hold on my soul like thy used to. I still very much appreciate a finely crafted wood stock. I just do not own any of them.
     

    T-DOGG

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    Practicality and usage are more important to me than collectability. I've had some nice wood and steel guns over the years. They sat in the safe and I was afraid to use them. My guns are tools and will be used as such. I do appreciate older firearms, but I am not a collector and want to use them without fear of reducing their value drastically simply because I scratched something or gave it holster wear. I'm a shooter and have that mindset.
     

    rob63

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    May 9, 2013
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    When I started collecting, roughly 30 years ago, I really wanted to own guns from the American Civil War. However, I simply couldn't afford them, so I started purchasing the guns from the two world wars since they were cheap. Eventually, it completely flip-flopped. I could sell guns from the world wars for considerably more than I paid for them, and the guns from the Civil War were basically still what they had been 20 years earlier.

    I don't recall anybody correctly predicting any of this happening. Dealers thought I was a fool for being interested in crappy military surplus rifles instead of real collectibles. I wasn't being smart, I was just getting what interested me that I could afford.

    I'm not going to try to make any predictions, I'm no smarter than those guys 30 years ago.

    Note to Indiucky; I know what an SVT-40 with an SA stamp is, used to own 2 of them!
     

    indiucky

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    Every rifle in my collection, save one (1), is wood and steel. I love the olde world look and feel. While all rifles have had many parts manufactured by machine, the wood has the feel of old world craftsmanship, and individual provenance on a repaired wooden stock is something to see how they fitted it. Damage to plastic? Just remove and replace, no skill involved.

    As to Indiucky's comment, I wonder how many of the older guys were raised in a generation that considered bubba-ing a rifle as an improvement?:xmad: I have an NRA publication from 1962 that promotes chopping up a beautiful war relic to "improve" it for hunting! I wonder how many more mature gentlemen consider this a good thing, or at least not a bad thing? I once met a guy who was looking to trade his old K-98 Mauser for an M1 Garand. I brought mine over and we looked at each others gun. We both agreed - the other guy had a butt ugly rifle! He hated that mine was untouched and in original configuration, with no sanding or polishing of the stock. I hated that his K-98 had a cut down stock, and was drilled & tapped for a civilian hunting scope!:( There was no trade.

    Everything young people have today is mass produced, everything. Perhaps they will begin to appreciate the hand crafted glory of the older, beautiful firearms that our grandparents took for granted.

    Regards,

    Doug

    I just sold a Golden State Arms enfield that had been sporterized by Parker Hale sometime in the 60's with a 5 round magazine...Took every bit of self control to not take that thing home...I sold it for $200 and hope it comes back...it's the 2nd time it's been here...My dad killed a pronghorn in '72 with a sporterized Remington 03A3 that was scoped....

    it was a thing....
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    I just sold a Golden State Arms enfield that had been sporterized by Parker Hale sometime in the 60's with a 5 round magazine...Took every bit of self control to not take that thing home...I sold it for $200 and hope it comes back...it's the 2nd time it's been here...My dad killed a pronghorn in '72 with a sporterized Remington 03A3 that was scoped....

    it was a thing....

    I'd have been awful tempted by that Enfield! I've gained a new interest in sporterized rifles. If you look at them for what they ARE and not what they WERE, it kind of changes your perspective, or at least it does for me. It also lets me afford some rifles that might be out of reach if they were in original configuration. The Ross 1905 I just got is a good example of that.
     

    indiucky

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    I'd have been awful tempted by that Enfield! I've gained a new interest in sporterized rifles. If you look at them for what they ARE and not what they WERE, it kind of changes your perspective, or at least it does for me. It also lets me afford some rifles that might be out of reach if they were in original configuration. The Ross 1905 I just got is a good example of that.

    Mike picked it up twice...I know he's a three-fer...If he picks up a gun three times I grab the 4473 and a pen....He said the magazine was worth $75 by itself...
     

    Haven

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    I don't know that it matters, but only having started buying guns last year, I might have a different view. So far two of my hand guns are all steel, the other two are plastic bodies. Both of the rifles I own are wood stocks. When I bought my Ruger 10/22, I planned on changing it out to a different stock. However the Ruger was so nice looking in silver and wood, that I couldn't do it. So eventually I plan on getting a nice used 10/22 at some point to change up.
     

    Hop

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    When I opened my shop with an intent to cater to folks that like older, classic firearms I thought my customers would be guys my age and older...It turned out to not be the case....Most of my customers liking the older guns are in their 20's...There seems to be an about face among the younger generation that seems to be in rebellion against MIM and plastic guns...

    IMHO and my observation in my shop....

    I've got an SVT 40 that came in yesterday with an SA stamp....Every twenty something that came in knew what it was and wanted to coon finger it....The older guys? Not so much...

    I'm guessing that may have a lot to do with the Call of Duty video game series and the average age of those players at the time. It exposed them to a lot of WWI, WW2 Mil-Spec weapons. I was a bit older than most of those players but it's what rekindled my desire for several of those machined steel and wood guns. Surplusrifle.com was booming 10 years ago. That website fizled as quickly as the cheap Mil-surps dried up in the local gun stores.
     

    Leadeye

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    I enjoy collecting guns with a story, most of those are old. Wood and other natural products look good on firearms belonging to the older era.
     
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    I have been collecting military surplus rifles and S&W revolvers for a few years Now. A few things sparked my interest in them, video games, YouTube, ingo, other forums, and just by interacting with people at gun shows.

    I have a few shooting buddies, between the ages of 20-32. Some of them are into wood and steel guns. The rest are into hunting, concealed carry, and ar's.

    I think the price of these guns will go down in 20 years. My generation overall is not as big into shooting as our parents or grandparents. I am 26.

    I think prices will go down as the older collectors start to liquidate or sadly pass on
     

    Mongo59

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    Is it just me or others out there that tend to personify firearms? Old stuff with a story just speaks to me while "parked and polymers" seem to have no soul. Places like Hamden and New Haven are spoken of with a reverence while Maysfield, Kentucky only conjures up thoughts of high schoolers with pneumatic tools on an assembly line flipping each other with shop rags. If I look at an old Stevens 520 and think of how John M Browning thought this thing up and all the mill work and fitting it took to make it... I am in awe. Others just see a heavy obsolete hunk of iron that will give you cramps from toten it all day. But then again I am just a not so bright Marine who chose to carry an M60 just to have something .30 cal.
     

    Mongo59

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    I have been collecting military surplus rifles and S&W revolvers for a few years Now. A few things sparked my interest in them, video games, YouTube, ingo, other forums, and just by interacting with people at gun shows.

    I have a few shooting buddies, between the ages of 20-32. Some of them are into wood and steel guns. The rest are into hunting, concealed carry, and ar's.

    I think the price of these guns will go down in 20 years. My generation overall is not as big into shooting as our parents or grandparents. I am 26.

    I think prices will go down as the older collectors start to liquidate or sadly pass on

    I wish you could have known what it was like for you and two or three friends to go shooting all day on less than $5 worth of ammo. Now-a-days my billfold cramps up before my fingers get sore from loading magazines...
     
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