Anti Cant Devices

[GSPBirdDog]

So a question i have had for some time now that i am getting further and further deeper into long range shooting. Do i need to use my anti cant device on my optic set to natural level or do i set the scope and rifle level and just adjust my natural shooting position? When i mounted my optic, i leveled my rifle while sitting on the bench, then leveled my reticle to my rifle. Now when i go to mount my rifle and shoot it, my scope level is perfect, but my reticle looks off when i am in my “natural” shooting position.
Should i keep doing this method or should i get a adjustable recoil pad on my long range setup?

 

[Hop]

It's hard for us to say your rifle is perfectly perpendicular to the ground when you mount up. Maybe you aren't shouldering it into your "pocket" correctly.

Are you shooting with a sling or off a bag or what?

How far is long range?

 

[natdscott]

Regardless of position, temperature, your marital status, etc., the scope level bubble needs to reflect "LEVEL" when the horizontal crosshair is level. **caveat

Generally, that is also done with a rifle whose action is also level, such that the elevation you add in the scope is oriented parallel to the pull of gravity on the bullet when it exits the barrel of a leveled rifle. If you do otherwise, you better be doing it intentionally.

In varying positions, yes, you will see some difference in cant. With this issue, again, you have choices:
--You can either force the rifle into position vertically,
--change the position so it doesn't cant the rifle,
--learn the offsets and shoot it canted,
--have a level setting for your predominant position, and know the offsets for others, **
--or shoot in outer space where it doesn't matter.

**An example of this caveat is me on a competition rifle. I set things up to be 0.0 in prone, 3/4 to 1 Minute Right in offhand, and 1.5-2 MOA left in sitting. Works pretty okay, simply because my groups are so much smaller if I let the rifle cant.

-Nate

 

[GSPBirdDog]

It's hard for us to say your rifle is perfectly perpendicular to the ground when you mount up. Maybe you aren't shouldering it into your "pocket" correctly.

Are you shooting with a sling or off a bag or what?

How far is long range?

Off a rear bag and Atlas Bipod out to 800-1,000 yards

 

[Hop]

You're squarely in Natdscott's turf then. I'm sure he knows how much cant at those distances causes "x" change in POI.

I have seen some expensive scopes with canted reticles right out of the box. It's not always how it's attached to the gun.

 

[natdscott]

You're squarely in Natdscott's turf then. I'm sure he knows how much cant at those distances causes "x" change in POI.

I have seen some expensive scopes with canted reticles right out of the box. It's not always how it's attached to the gun.

Well...not exactly.. Can offsets are pretty easy at 2-300 yards with less than 5 Minutes on the gun.

At the distances he's talking, it is my opinion that 1) you need to get the rifle pretty level, and (2), you need to get the bubble the same, if you choose to use one.

I have shot quite a bit of cant at 300 yards, and 500/600. Canting the rifle at 600 can still work, but it's not really advisable unless you're REALLY practiced at it...which I was at that time (and I still dropped some corner shots at 4:00). At 1,000, I keep the rifle as level as I can hold.

The only reason I'd be taking canted shots at 1/2 Mile is because I had NO other option on the table.


-Nate

 

[Hop]

Well...not exactly.. Can offsets are pretty easy at 2-300 yards with less than 5 Minutes on the gun.

At the distances he's talking, it is my opinion that 1) you need to get the rifle pretty level, and (2), you need to get the bubble the same, if you choose to use one.

I have shot quite a bit of cant at 300 yards, and 500/600. Canting the rifle at 600 can still work, but it's not really advisable unless you're REALLY practiced at it...which I was at that time (and I still dropped some corner shots at 4:00). At 1,000, I keep the rifle as level as I can hold.

The only reason I'd be taking canted shots at 1/2 Mile is because I had NO other option on the table.


-Nate

I meant it's more you area of expertise than mine.

 

[GSPBirdDog]

Well...not exactly.. Can offsets are pretty easy at 2-300 yards with less than 5 Minutes on the gun.

At the distances he's talking, it is my opinion that 1) you need to get the rifle pretty level, and (2), you need to get the bubble the same, if you choose to use one.

I have shot quite a bit of cant at 300 yards, and 500/600. Canting the rifle at 600 can still work, but it's not really advisable unless you're REALLY practiced at it...which I was at that time (and I still dropped some corner shots at 4:00). At 1,000, I keep the rifle as level as I can hold.

The only reason I'd be taking canted shots at 1/2 Mile is because I had NO other option on the table.


-Nate

I appreciate the advice! I did level the action, then leveled the reticle off that. I just need to learn a better way of getting the scope/rifle level with my natural position behind the setup.

 

[bwframe]

I'm not nearly as qualified to speak to this as others commenting here. This what I do though:

I use inexpensive bubble levels on all of my longer range rifles. They screw to the scope rail, just to rear of the objective bell. I can only speculate that these levels are less than precise, but they are a reference that I can go by and return to each shot.

Nearly as important to me, The levels function as a place to clip a dope card. Verify the dope, look at bubble, ready to shoot...

 

[DRob]

I've had the good fortune to shoot with some very good long range shooters. Neither my guns nor my skills are up to snuff but I can listen and occasionally learn. They constantly rag each other about scope cant. What seems level to one looks canted to another, etc., etc.. Several of them shoot with levels mounted on their scopes. Clearly, it's important when you start to stretch out. So, here's what I use when I'm mounting a scope....

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/5...vel-level-level-scope-crosshair-leveling-tool

 

[Mongo59]

If you predictably cant in order to accurately compensate for spin drift then you have something.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

If you predictably cant in order to accurately compensate for spin drift then you have something.

Note to self, order spare barrel in opposite hand twist rifling when shooting south of the equator.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Regardless of position, temperature, your marital status, etc., the scope level bubble needs to reflect "LEVEL" when the horizontal crosshair is level. **caveat

Generally, that is also done with a rifle whose action is also level, such that the elevation you add in the scope is oriented parallel to the pull of gravity on the bullet when it exits the barrel of a leveled rifle. If you do otherwise, you better be doing it intentionally.

In varying positions, yes, you will see some difference in cant. With this issue, again, you have choices:
--You can either force the rifle into position vertically,
--change the position so it doesn't cant the rifle,
--learn the offsets and shoot it canted,
--have a level setting for your predominant position, and know the offsets for others, **
--or shoot in outer space where it doesn't matter.

**An example of this caveat is me on a competition rifle. I set things up to be 0.0 in prone, 3/4 to 1 Minute Right in offhand, and 1.5-2 MOA left in sitting. Works pretty okay, simply because my groups are so much smaller if I let the rifle cant.

-Nate

Good post, Thanks

 

[Mongo59]

It could prove to be cheaper to "shoot in outer space where it doesn't matter". Why not having to use hearing protection alone...
Thanks natdscott, that line is precious.