Suppressed Backpack AR, 45 or 9?

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  • jeffsqartan

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    I'm looking to build a pistol caliber AR at some point.
    Here's what it would need to accomplish:

    Fit into a backpack - side folding buffer tubes are an option in this case
    Run suppressed 99% of the time, meaning it will likely be store with the suppressor attached or the suppressor will have Quick Detach to make deployment quick
    Take Glock mags
    No supersonic crack

    Initially, I thought 45acp for the main reason of most ammo being subsonic by nature.
    However, ammo cost is higher, even for reloading.
    I might be swayed into building it in 9mm for the fact that ammo is cheaper, and at least during training I could use supersonic rounds and then keep my bag loaded with subs.
    General use would be something I carry in addition to my current EDC, which is normally a 45 caliber pistol. Uses would mostly be for hiking.

    I have most of a build planned out for a 6" barreled billet upper/lower that would accept Glock mags. The plan would be to also run a LAW tactical folder on it, or a DFA side folder. I don't have a suppressor choice picked out yet, but I'm just curious to see what route y'all would go.
    Thoughts? What would you pick and why?
     

    Ggreen

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    I have both, if silence is the overriding goal of course 45. If capacity is your goal then 9mm. I have a macon armory 45ar that uses their stick mags, not convenient to carry one in the magwell at all. The glock variety that you can get now may be a good choice. 45 has a lot less kick to it than 300blk which is another advantage in an AR pistol, 9mm for some reason can get snappy but a good compensator can eliminate a lot of that.

    Toss another wrench in your toolbox and check out the 10mm upper that macon armory has out. They have a di version coming out very soon. I want one of these in a pistol that can back up as a deer gun.
     

    cosermann

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    I'd go 9mm because it's cheaper, the can can be smaller, and the capacity will be higher. But, either is a whole lot of fun.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    What does your sidearm eat? Only carrying one caliber, especially if you are carrying a Glock, is what you want.

    I mean, I assume you specified a Glock fed AR so you could share mags, so why not make the mags universal between the two platforms. Otherwise if you carry a G-19 and you choose an AR-45, you can no longer share mags so it might as well be a Colt pattern mag AR at that point.
     

    NyleRN

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    1. Which suppressor you going to use if you're going to leave it attached?
    2. Is this going to be a defensive gun or offensive?
     

    jeffsqartan

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    I carry a pistol normally. Usually a 45acp 1911, full size. It's a good carry gun, but that's not what I'm after here. This is backup, SHTF, or a hiking gun.
    I have a 300blk pistol. Still waiting on my can to get out of jail, but I can tell you that there's no way that I'm fitting that gun in my bag with the suppressor attached.
    My hope with the pistol caliber AR is to cut down on barrel length by a few inches (current 300blk is an 8.5" barrel), and possibly cut down on suppressor length.
    I want the can to be attached at all times. Take the gun out, unfold the buffer tube, and get to work.
    I'm sure I could cut 300blk down to a 4" or 5" barrel, but it's not optimal IMO. And finding ammo in a SHTF situation would be a PITA.
    The purpose for Glock mag interchangeability is that they are common. I like my 1911 and doubt I'll purchase a Glock soon. But I'm under the impression that I could get double-stacked mags for the AR45 or AR9 if I went the Glock route, correct? Which is why I wouldn't share mags between my 1911 and the AR. More capacity if using Glock style.
    I'm OK with it being 45 or 9. Yes, it would be nice to only carry one type of ammo, but I do have a 9mm and am considering a double stack 1911 in 9mm, so I can go either way on that.

    The only suppressed guns I've ever fired are my 300blk's and my 22, both at an indoor range. I don't quite have a grasp on how that translates to real world sound. And I'm sure a 45 and 9 are even vastly different from a 300blk.
    Not sure about 10mm. Definitely cool and a consideration, but if I think that I'll be in a situation where additional power is required, I would prefer to just have my 300blk in the bag. That's a hiking scenario that I'm considering. I would think that a 45 or 9 would handle most uses where humans are on the receiving end.
     

    jeffsqartan

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    1. Which suppressor you going to use if you're going to leave it attached?
    2. Is this going to be a defensive gun or offensive?
    I have not chosen a suppressor yet. There's a possibility that I will have it custom made or build it to my own specifications if I can't find one that fits the dimensions I want.
    If this gun comes out, it's either to kill an animal for food, or because my defensive gun isn't enough, meaning I would be on the offensive at that point. Or at least, I would consider it on the offensive.
     

    NyleRN

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    Sounds like your best bet is a kel-tec gen2 sub2k. Folds in half and has a threaded barrel. Or the ruger 9mm carbine takedown. As far as the can goes, I'd do something like the sico omega 9k or if you're going F1 route then use that footprint to keep it short and light as possible
     

    Ggreen

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    45 is the pill you are seeking I think.

    I should have my 45 can out of nfa jail in a month (YHM Sidewinder). The sidewinder is good for 300blk subs too and weighs less than our American MFG cans, by a lot. I don't know if you ever make it down to Columbus but you could give my ar45 a run. I strongly suggest trying a keltec sub2k before buying if you go that route... the only thing I liked about it was it sold for what I paid for it, but others like them. I've never let anyone shoot the ar45 that didn't have huge grins (especially ringing steel at 200). I think the AR pistol with a law folder in 45 would be the bees knees. I can't wait to put a suppressor on mine and I've been eyeballing a folder for a while. The MPX with a 4" barrel would be pretty sick too and honestly real close in price to what you will have into an AR45 once it is all said, done and the cheap parts get replaced with expensive ones.. They can be finicky with cheap or out of spec parts.
     
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    jeffsqartan

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    I'm trying to keep the initial build under $1k. So far, I'm barely there. Actually, I'm over that when I add in the cost of a folder and SBA3 brace.
    An MPx base price is above $1,500.
    I agree with your statement, but part of the reason it wasn't on my initial list is because of cost.
    Actually, what semi-started my entire idea was the Innovative Arms integrally suppressed CZ Scorpion. Again, way more cost than what I wanted into the gun. However, it could end up evening out depending on the suppressor choice that I make.

    Kel-tec actually isn't a bad idea. Almost bought one a couple years ago. However, can't fold it in half with an optic on top. I've heard there are a few possible solutions for this, but I'm not a fan of the options I saw.
     

    NyleRN

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    For just a hair over $1k you can buy the ruger PC9 takedown and almost have enough money leftover for a Tirant 9m. Run it in the short configuration. It's stupid light. Save some lunch money change and buy a TRS-25 to put on top
     

    Ggreen

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    I'm trying to keep the initial build under $1k. So far, I'm barely there. Actually, I'm over that when I add in the cost of a folder and SBA3 brace.
    An MPx base price is above $1,500.
    I agree with your statement, but part of the reason it wasn't on my initial list is because of cost.
    Actually, what semi-started my entire idea was the Innovative Arms integrally suppressed CZ Scorpion. Again, way more cost than what I wanted into the gun. However, it could end up evening out depending on the suppressor choice that I make.

    Kel-tec actually isn't a bad idea. Almost bought one a couple years ago. However, can't fold it in half with an optic on top. I've heard there are a few possible solutions for this, but I'm not a fan of the options I saw.

    You will easily surpass 1500 on an ar45 and come real close on a reliable ar9 once you add mags, I've been down that road. The easier part to owning the AR over an mpx is how much easier it is sneaking parts past the spouse a couple hundred dollars at a time rather than bam... 2 house payments lol. And not being able to fold with an optic is one of the lesser bad parts to owning a sub2k... Run one objectively before investing in one. Ruger PCC all day over a keltec
     

    jeffsqartan

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    Yeah I missed a few of the comments as I typed that up lol
    I agree, the 45 I think is the answer. I mean, I do handload, so I could do the 9 and make my own subs, but that semi-defeats the purpose of being able to grab any ammo laying around and it do what I want.

    I do like the PC9 and want one, but in this case I'm not sure it's the answer. For the simple fact of it has to break down in half.
    I can already do that trick with my current 300blk pistol. I can make the task easier if I pick up some extended take down pins.

    IMO, I think that the AR platform is going to win. And I think I'm going to stick with 45acp. I already reload it, it's still readily available on shelves and in subsonic form.
    Ggreen, I think I'll take you up on that AR45 test offer. I'm up in Greenwood. Columbus is an easy drive for me. I'll actually be down there for an autocross event in November.

    It's funny, I came here trying to spark a debate between 45acp and 9mm in an AR platform with specific restrictions, and ended up with a "which platform is better" debate lol
    Love it, and I encourage the debate to continue on. I don't plan on purchasing this tool for quite some time, so I'll take all the debate I can get.
     

    Ggreen

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    45 has some pretty exciting options in ar's that came out recently. Mine is a macon armory DI gas pistol and it is like pushing 230grains of hate with a cloud, just a real pleasure to shoot. My 9mm AR is being built with uspsa in mind so it's a 16" barrel with another couple inches of compensator hanging off of it. I thought I could do it cheaper than buying one, but it tallies up fast. I am a big pcc fan and I think it is really hard to go wrong with ar15 ergonomics, and parts. MPX seems to be the answer for a lot of people in competition and if my ar9 doesn't make me happy i'm just going to pick up an mpx and quit with the headache. But then you get the mpx, put a trigger in, a magwell... and before you know it you are parking a rifle in your safe that with the kind of money that could be parking a car in your garage. That is hard to explain to the other half. "you spent how much of your bonus on a what?" All of MY bonus on a handbuilt AK hun, for the family... Lead balloons have been known to fly better lol. Thank god she loves me.
     

    KJQ6945

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    45 has some pretty exciting options in ar's that came out recently. Mine is a macon armory DI gas pistol and it is like pushing 230grains of hate with a cloud, just a real pleasure to shoot. My 9mm AR is being built with uspsa in mind so it's a 16" barrel with another couple inches of compensator hanging off of it. I thought I could do it cheaper than buying one, but it tallies up fast. I am a big pcc fan and I think it is really hard to go wrong with ar15 ergonomics, and parts. MPX seems to be the answer for a lot of people in competition and if my ar9 doesn't make me happy i'm just going to pick up an mpx and quit with the headache. But then you get the mpx, put a trigger in, a magwell... and before you know it you are parking a rifle in your safe that with the kind of money that could be parking a car in your garage. That is hard to explain to the other half. "you spent how much of your bonus on a what?" All of MY bonus on a handbuilt AK hun, for the family... Lead balloons have been known to fly better lol. Thank god she loves me.


    Smaller rifles are easier to sneak in the house, than a pistol. :D


    ACE4A0C1-A0C1-4D25-98FD-6BDB8D9D0014_zpsyyfza5ht.jpg
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I'm trying to keep the initial build under $1k. So far, I'm barely there. Actually, I'm over that when I add in the cost of a folder and SBA3 brace.
    An MPx base price is above $1,500.
    I agree with your statement, but part of the reason it wasn't on my initial list is because of cost.
    Actually, what semi-started my entire idea was the Innovative Arms integrally suppressed CZ Scorpion. Again, way more cost than what I wanted into the gun. However, it could end up evening out depending on the suppressor choice that I make.

    Kel-tec actually isn't a bad idea. Almost bought one a couple years ago. However, can't fold it in half with an optic on top. I've heard there are a few possible solutions for this, but I'm not a fan of the options I saw.

    [STRIKE]Not that you are still down that road, but I'd avoid anything that requires a stamp. No Integral suppressors or SBRs. I may be remembering incorrectly, but anything with a stamp needs written permission to move across state lines. The 45 pistol AR with a can is great because if you want to travel, you can just leave the can at home. Integral suppressor would limit your last minute travel and require a permission slip.

    Wasn't sure if you considered that.[/STRIKE]

    Edit: For those that skim, disregard.
     
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