AR-15 Pistol...5.56 vs 7.62 x 39...or .300 BLK

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    Amishman44

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    Hello y'all...just poppin' in with a few questions regarding the building of an 'at-home-fun-toy' AR-15 and am bouncing back-n-forth between building a 5.56 or a 7.62 x 39 caliber pistol?

    I'm really just wanting a pistol that will function in the 25-50-75-100 meter (no more) distance range...that is accurate, effective, reliable...and does not present with a multiple issues to over come.

    I prefer a heavier caliber (the 7.62 x 39) for short-range (closer-in) purposes...but have heard complaints with the way a 7.62 x 39 functions in the AR platform?

    My wife already has an AR-15 pistol in 5.56 with a KAK Shockwave Brace...which does make for a nice, light-weight, pistol platform...ease o
    f use, etc.

    I hope to be able to stay in the 7.5" - 10" barrel-length range...and will probably use the same KAK Shockwave Brace so as to keep the pistols similar.

    Another question might be is, how well does .300 BLK perform in a short-barrel...I've been told by more than a few not to waste my time with it...but I wouldn't call any o
    f them 'experts' by any means.

    If anyone with experience with .223/5.56, .300 BLK, or 7.62 x 39...in the a shorter-barrel AR platform...who would have any suggestions...who would be willing to relate their experience...and who would comment with 'pro's' or 'con's'...either way (please keep comments 'polite')...I would be open to suggestions.

    Thank you...and appreciated!
     
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    TangoFoxtrot

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    Hello y'all...just poppin' in with a few questions regarding the building of an 'at-home' defense AR-15 and am bouncing back-n-forth between building a 5.56 or a 7.62 x 39 caliber pistol?

    I'm really just wanting a pistol that will function in the 25-50-75-100 meter (no more) distance range...that is accurate, effective, reliable...and does not present with a multiple issues to over come.

    I prefer a heavier caliber (the 7.62 x 39) for short-range (closer-in) purposes...but have heard complaints with the way a 7.62 x 39 functions in the AR platform?

    My wife already has an AR-15 pistol in 5.56 with a KAK Shockwave Brace...which does make for a nice, light-weight, pistol platform...ease o
    f use, etc.

    I hope to be able to stay in the 7.5" - 10" barrel-length range...and will probably use the same KAK Shockwave Brace so as to keep the pistols similar.

    Another question might be is, how well does .300 BLK perform in a short-barrel...I've been told by more than a few not to waste my time with it...but I wouldn't call any o
    f them 'experts' by any means.

    If anyone with experience with .223/5.56, .300 BLK, or 7.62 x 39...in the a shorter-barrel AR platform...who would have any suggestions...who would be willing to relate their experience...and who would comment with pro's or con's either way (please keep comments 'polite')...I would be open to suggestions.

    Thank you...and appreciated!
    imho, 5.56, 7.62x39 are both overkill (no pun intended) for home defence... at least against standard invaders... my personal preference for home defense is .357 magnum :)

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
     

    roscott

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    For those requirements, IMHO .300 BLK is the king. Runs reliably in short barrels, uses easily available magazines and BCGs, carries more energy and makes a bigger hole than 5.56.

    I have had excellent performance from an 8” 300 BLK pistol. It also runs subsonics very well if you ever go the suppressor route.
     

    Hop

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    300BLK is the way to go. The round was designed for a suppressed SBR. Your non experts are exactly that.

    I can run both subs and supers in my 8" Noveske with or without a suppressor. I do have to swap the buffer once in a while to get it to lock open on the last shot.
     

    Sniper 79

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    .223 pros
    Cheap, reliable, share ammo and mags
    .223 cons
    Extremely loud, loses a lot of energy in that short of a pipe

    300blk pros
    Gets full burn in a short pipe, hits hard, uses mags you already own
    300 cons
    Stupid expensive even if you handload on ammo, ran subsonic it's a 45acp (rainbow trajectory )

    7.62 I don't have any real experience with besides shooting a friends rifle. It ran fine although kicked twice as hard as my 300blk. Ammo is fairly cheap, it hits hard as hell......just seems wrong in an American gun.

    Given the choices 223 but I'd put a flashlight on a Glock 9mm and call it a day. Spend the rest on ammo. Not enough then go for a 20ga pump and several cases of ammo and hit the range.
     

    Ggreen

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    I hold 1.75" groups at 100 or of my 7.5" 300blk pistol running magtech 123gr supers. I pick them up at 40 cents a round. Self defense supersonic is the way to go, subs only if you need to be quiet like with a baby near by or children that you don't want to run their ears. I get some fails to lock open with very heavy subsonic rounds, but it will run all 30 before I have to worry about pulling the handle, runs a1 with a suppressor and anything I put in it. 300blk haters are generally the misinformed masses with little hands on time with the round. Great utility in an AR pistol for home defense, automotive defense, hunting, and just about anything else.
     

    Sniper 79

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    False. I load 300 BLK for about .30 per round.

    Like I said that is pretty stiff in comparison to the .223. The 30 cal projectiles are twice the price and all the extra steps to load the darn things.

    I just purchased 4k 55grn .224 JHP projectiles for .03 cents ea. Free range pickup brass. Figure .03 cents for the primer and a penny or so for the pow pow. Puts me around .07 cents for a trigger pull.:):

    I loaded around 400 or so Blackout. Pretty much unimpressed with performance and really the cost of tooling and everything else. Grabbed a wrench and passed the barrel to a fellow INGO member that wanted to try it.
     

    DanVoils

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    Another vote for .300BO. My go to rifle for self defense is a 7.5" .300BO SBR with subsonics, a Vortex Spitfire and a suppressor. If I have to shoot inside the house I really don't want to deafen myself or my family. I've shot the subsonics out to 50 yards and they shot very flat. There wasn't any hold over with the Spitfire.
     

    Ggreen

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    Like I said that is pretty stiff in comparison to the .223. The 30 cal projectiles are twice the price and all the extra steps to load the darn things.

    I just purchased 4k 55grn .224 JHP projectiles for .03 cents ea. Free range pickup brass. Figure .03 cents for the primer and a penny or so for the pow pow. Puts me around .07 cents for a trigger pull.:):

    I loaded around 400 or so Blackout. Pretty much unimpressed with performance and really the cost of tooling and everything else. Grabbed a wrench and passed the barrel to a fellow INGO member that wanted to try it.

    What performance factor(s) left you unimpressed? Just curious.
     

    edwea

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    Like I said that is pretty stiff in comparison to the .223. The 30 cal projectiles are twice the price and all the extra steps to load the darn things.

    I just purchased 4k 55grn .224 JHP projectiles for .03 cents ea. Free range pickup brass. Figure .03 cents for the primer and a penny or so for the pow pow. Puts me around .07 cents for a trigger pull.:):

    I loaded around 400 or so Blackout. Pretty much unimpressed with performance and really the cost of tooling and everything else. Grabbed a wrench and passed the barrel to a fellow INGO member that wanted to try it.

    In a 7.5 - 10" bbl, what does 223 offer over 300 blk? Besides being super loud. Honest question. At that length, velocity will be about the same (assuming 110 or 125 gn bullets) and 300 BLK offers heavier bullets.

    This is starting to smell an awful lot like the 9 vs 40 vs 45...
     

    Sniper 79

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    Its not really a true rifle. More like a pistol launching a conical rifle bullet. Then to shoot subs...meh.....too slow and has too much drop.

    However for a close in woods hunting rifle it might be good for a young kid. It isn't too loud or have much recoil.
     

    Ggreen

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    Its not really a true rifle. More like a pistol launching a conical rifle bullet. Then to shoot subs...meh.....too slow and has too much drop.

    However for a close in woods hunting rifle it might be good for a young kid. It isn't too loud or have much recoil.

    8" 300blk pistols send a Barnes 110gr 2110 ft-sec at 1153ft-lbs... Idk many pistols with 30 round mags that do that.
     

    masterdekoy

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    I’ll throw in another vote for 300 BLK. For what you describe, it’s tailor made. Even better if you have a can. Hornady 110 VMAX and Nosler 110 Varmageddon are some pretty nasty rounds. Subs have the sound advantage, but you lose quite a bit of power. They still have advantages over pistol rounds if you get the correct load.

    True the .30 cal projectiles are more expensive, and they will likely always be. There’s more material there, it’s unavoidable. Factory loaded 300 BLK fmj is fairly easy to find around $.50 per round. 223 is about half that. Something to consider.

    If if you did want to go with 223, just make sure you get a load that will be effective out of a shorter barrel. Hornady makes a 75gr loading specifically for SBRs, or heavier 77gr loads would work fine. Rifle round will still kick a 9mm’s ass in terms of energy.

    There are several AK pistols which could be had for around the same price as an AR if you wanted 7.62x39. Not sure if that’s an option for you.
     

    JJFII

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    Ok, there are several issues you have to deal with before this is done.

    1- What kind of self defense situation are you dealing with? Home, farm, ranch, urban, suburban, condo, apartment...?
    2- What is your threat? armed intruder, gang of armed intruders, Zombie Aliens....
    3- How will this firearm be deployed? bedside, bug-out, with or without plate carrier... whats your Kit?

    99% of the guns I have seen for SD are foolish fantasy stuff. 300bo 5.56 and 7.62 and 308... its all the same Guys complain about..my AR15 is too heavy to walk around in the woods, when they got everything and kitchen sink hanging off it because some tacti-cool guy on youtube told them it was "needed".

    I got no issues with AR pistols Dracos and PCC, I own them. They are mostly RANGE TOYS.

    If you plan on taking the fight outside and engaging threats out to 100+ yards, the caliber doesnt really matter as much as people will tell you. What matters is the Kit you have. The optic, The mags, the vest/carrier, the internals, the weight factor, the training...

    556 is just as good as 300BO 762 or 308... and I dont care what a person did for a living or what army they belonged to... Training and Kit matter more than caliber...PERIOD

    your training doesnt win gun fights, your opponents lack of training does

    I use a 9mm G17 in the home a, & 9mm PCC for home defense because I live in a housing tract. That is my go to if the threat is at the street, I'd go with my 16" rifle if they were down the street and if they were all the way down the street and in the corn field, I'm breaking out the savage. None of this revolves around the gun, it revolves around the kit with the gun.

    If a person says there be-all, end-all go to defensive weapon is a 10" 300BO, or 7" 9mm or 18" 556...great...tells me nothing other than they bought into caliber matters game. They have their reasons and that is fine, but truth be told the caliber means nothing.

    Many people train to face inept and stupid criminals. Big mistake. You should be training and planning to fight a world class arms instructor. To win a bet some a-hole called 911 and then murdered the 3 responding cops with an SKS. He had a total of 10 rounds on him.

    my next AR pistol is going to be 410... snakes on a plane...
     

    Amishman44

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    If if you did want to go with 223, just make sure you get a load that will be effective out of a shorter barrel. Hornady makes a 75gr loading specifically for SBRs, or heavier 77gr loads would work fine. Rifle round will still kick a 9mmÂ’s ass in terms of energy.

    There are several AK pistols which could be had for around the same price as an AR if you wanted 7.62x39. Not sure if thatÂ’s an option for you.

    Our neighborhood has changed A LOT over the past 5-7 years...having gone from less than 11% rentals to more than 55% rentals during that time frame.

    Just 3 weeks ago, a young woman/mother, at the end of the our street, was murdered by her husband in the middle of the night. And there's other issues in the neighborhood hood that weren't so prevalent just 5+ years ago.

    The pistol would primary be used for in the house and for close-by around the house / yard / etc.

    Initial set up would probably be a set of Daniel Defense fixed sights (tritium front post) and 20-round magazines so as to keep it short-n-simple on all ends. Possibly a laser sight to go along with it...but not really sure about at this time because I've never really used one? Also, because I like my stuff to be simple...not all weighed down with 20+ useless gimmicks that require batteries to be used properly.

    My wife's 10" usee Black Hills Ammo 77 grain .223's...out of a .223 Wylde barrel...does a pretty good job of being pretty accurate at closer ranges (up to 75 meters)...but is LOUD!

    Originally thought I'd build one to match hers...but then thought I'd open the door and see what other options were available that might be relevant?

    One other option I had briefly considered was .458 SOCOM or .450 Bushmaster...but DANG...that got really expensive quickly!

    Lastly...not really interested in going down the AK path...although I have friends who have them and love them...as I'm just trying to avoid having too many different platforms.
     

    JJFII

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    Our neighborhood has changed A LOT over the past 5-7 years...having gone from less than 11% rentals to more than 55% rentals during that time frame.

    Just 3 weeks ago, a young woman/mother, at the end of the our street, was murdered by her husband in the middle of the night. And there's other issues in the neighborhood hood that weren't so prevalent just 5+ years ago.

    The pistol would primary be used for in the house and for close-by around the house / yard / etc.

    Initial set up would probably be a set of Daniel Defense fixed sights (tritium front post) and 20-round magazines so as to keep it short-n-simple on all ends. Possibly a laser sight to go along with it...but not really sure about at this time because I've never really used one? Also, because I like my stuff to be simple...not all weighed down with 20+ useless gimmicks that require batteries to be used properly.

    My wife's 10" usee Black Hills Ammo 77 grain .223's...out of a .223 Wylde barrel...does a pretty good job of being pretty accurate at closer ranges (up to 75 meters)...but is LOUD!

    Originally thought I'd build one to match hers...but then thought I'd open the door and see what other options were available that might be relevant?

    One other option I had briefly considered was .458 SOCOM or .450 Bushmaster...but DANG...that got really expensive quickly!

    Lastly...not really interested in going down the AK path...although I have friends who have them and love them...as I'm just trying to avoid having too many different platforms.

    So your main concern is a local disturbance which is going to require you to man up the neighborhood. Could be idiots at the house or a bunch of idiots that you and your neighbors have to worry about at night.

    You got the bump in the night solved with a Pistol and flashlight, there is no need to go rambo-Vickers here. Your wives set-up seems fine to keep her safe locally as well. She needs a good sidearm and kit for it.

    You need to think about the two of you as a team. Do you really want to have multiple calibers and different kits? The answer is 100% NO. You need to keep the logistics simple, plain and without diversity. Diversity in kit is confusion in action.

    Either you both go 556 / 9mm or you change up her arms and go 300bo buying two new carbines / AR pistols. Forget Kriss, Aug, ACR, AKs, Fals...if you are going that route you need to man-up take a huge plunge and know as much about those weapon systems as you do about the AR and know where you can WALK to and get spare parts. Those firearms are great as weapons, but not as Kits. The AK is very easy to Kit up because you can't toss a rock too far without finding someone with one, but its still a gamble to Kit up your Home SD with them without you being fully prepared for extended use. Its not that hard, its just a lot more then Kitting up for the AR.

    I live / LOVE the 300bo for medium threats. There isnt even a fair discussion on 556 over 300 in rifles. I do see a serious flaw with a 300bo pistol kit. You are placing bang over mission. I feel the same with 308 and even dracos. People who prep SD with 300bo pistols are preping their kit for the idiot gang banger threat, not the pro-lurkers here. You have to expect to be against James Yeager and James Yeager's kit. He's coming at you with levelIII+ or levelIV plates, NV and with a can. your 300BO isnt going to punch holes in his plates, nor will it be a fair fight at night. You step outside at night and he's tagging you from 200yrds with 77gr 556 without effort. Can a 300bo pistol contend with that...no and I'm sorry to everyone here who thinks it can, but it cannot. The short barrel and gives up too much long range accuracy to compensate for close range punch. You toss a can on the end of that 300bo pistol and now you have limited yourself on med range even more. You got guys hitting man-sized steel 250 yards away and calling it good..LMFBO... NO THATS NOT GOOD. WHY??? Because your threat is the size of a bowling ball sending lead at you with the accuracy of hitting a soft ball at that range.

    I challenge any 300bo pistol owner to place a bowling ball 200 yards away, turn around and when the buzzer go off, turn around raise their pistol and engage that THREAT...tell me how many magazines it takes before you tag it. I can bet if that bowling ball was a guy prone with a 16" 556, you wouldnt make it to 5 shots... even if you went prone yourself.

    So the take away here is if you are planing to fight a medium range to short range threat...NO PISTOLS ALLOWED...Step up to a SBR just under 16" but keep it over 10". You need 1-6X something good. Not Primary Arms, Not Athlon Optics and NOT cheap Vortex even. Plan on spending $600+ on optics.

    Get you and the wife armor...good armor, level III isnt good. Patriot Armor Level III+ or Level IV... That's $400 each of you.

    If you want to stick with 556 pistols because of what you invested with the wives weapon, ok that cool, just be prepared to up that game with a couple extra RIFLE uppers in 300bo...take note of all NFA laws.

    I think this is the best way myself. Get yourself a nice well made 556 pistol. Kit it out with good optics, you and the wife get armor, good magazines, good blow-out kits, at least CATS and Wound Seal. Make that $1500-$2000 investment, then start planing on switching everything (both weapons) over to 300BO SBR in the long term.

    Train train train.
     

    blacknwhite

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    For those requirements, IMHO .300 BLK is the king. Runs reliably in short barrels, uses easily available magazines and BCGs, carries more energy and makes a bigger hole than 5.56.

    I have had excellent performance from an 8” 300 BLK pistol. It also runs subsonics very well if you ever go the suppressor route.

    Great points.....I believe .300blk was designed to fit this bill
     
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