selling to individual without ltch

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  • wizardfitz

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    Jul 9, 2011
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    franklin,in
    What is the law concerning someone without a ltch?
    I'm going to copy all his driver license info and picture
    Just wondering if that is good enough or should I pass?
     

    cce1302

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    Jun 26, 2008
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    Back down south
    Nothing. You don't have to ask anyone's permission to sell a gun to someone.

    It is only illegal to sell to someone who is a prohibited possessor. 18 USC 922 I think. maybe 923. How you want to decide if he's a prohibited possessor is up to you.
     

    JettaKnight

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    What is the law concerning someone without a ltch?
    That's a license to carry, not a license to buy.
    I'm going to copy all his driver license info and picture
    Why would you do that?


    There's only two questions: "Is the person a resident of Indiana?" and "Do you have any reason to believe the buyer is not legal to own firearms?".
     

    JettaKnight

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    It is only illegal to sell to someone who is a prohibited possessor. 18 USC 922 I think. maybe 923. How you want to decide if he's a prohibited possessor is up to you.

    Wrong.

    It's only illegal to sell to someone who you know is a prohibited possessor.
     

    WebSnyper

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    Jul 3, 2010
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    Personally, I would not want to be responsible for having a copy of someone else's DL, nor would I let someone copy mine. Just my thoughts on this.

    And as far as Federal law: https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...edures-should-be-followed-when-two-unlicensed

    What recordkeeping procedures should be followed when two unlicensed individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?

    When a transaction takes place between unlicensed persons who reside in the same State, the GCA does not require any record keeping. An unlicensed person may sell a firearm to another unlicensed person in his or her State of residence and, similarly, an unlicensed person may buy a firearm from another unlicensed person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same–State” residents.
    There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact the office of your State Attorney General for information regarding any such requirements.

    And 100% agree with Jetta above as well...
     

    cce1302

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    Jun 26, 2008
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    Wrong.

    It's only illegal to sell to someone who you know is a prohibited possessor.

    Or have reasonable cause to believe. But both of those are transparent in my statement.

    Here's 922(d): (Sorry about the formatting. I don't feel like fixing it.)

    (d)It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to anyperson knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—(1)is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

    (2)is a fugitive from justice;

    (3)is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

    (4)has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;

    (5)who, being an alien(A)is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

    (B)except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under anonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));


    (6)who [2] has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

    (7)who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

    (8)is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—(A)was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and

    (B)(i)includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

    (ii)by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or



    (9)has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

    This subsection shall not apply with respect to the sale or disposition of a firearm or ammunition to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector who pursuant to subsection (b) of section 925 of this chapter is not precluded from dealing in firearms or ammunition, or to a person who has been granted relief from disabilities pursuant to subsection (c) of section 925 of this chapter.
     

    wizardfitz

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    franklin,in
    I have no idea of if he is or isn't a prohibited possessor. I will run his name through mycase.in.gov.
    I know a ltch is a license to carry not to own. I know you can own a gun without one. You can then only have it in your home or on the way to or from the range. Just wondering if I was missing anything
     

    chenowethpm

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    Feb 12, 2019
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    Indianapolis
    These guys got it right. If you’re worried you could have someone sign a bill of sale for your own records, that is if you are worried about something coming back on you.
     

    JettaKnight

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    I have no idea of if he is or isn't a prohibited possessor. I will run his name through mycase.in.gov.
    I know a ltch is a license to carry not to own. I know you can own a gun without one. You can then only have it in your home or on the way to or from the range. Just wondering if I was missing anything

    This just gets more surreal.

    You know the full name, but don't have any idea if he's a bad dude?


    Pretty much for a FTF deal, a glance at the DL (not a photograph!) and a handshake is satisfactory, amirite?
     

    hpclayto

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    Nov 8, 2008
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    This just gets more surreal.

    You know the full name, but don't have any idea if he's a bad dude?


    Pretty much for a FTF deal, a glance at the DL (not a photograph!) and a handshake is satisfactory, amirite?

    Different strokes for different folks.
     

    bwframe

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    Feb 11, 2008
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    What's his iTrader rating look like?

    What is his post history? Anything suspect?

    Do you recognize other INGOers who have sold to him before?
     

    churchmouse

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    Dec 7, 2011
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    Speedway area
    I have no idea of if he is or isn't a prohibited possessor. I will run his name through mycase.in.gov.
    I know a ltch is a license to carry not to own. I know you can own a gun without one. You can then only have it in your home or on the way to or from the range. Just wondering if I was missing anything

    I might show you my DL if you do not know me just to show I am a resident but that is all I am showing you. And you are not making a copy of anything thank you very much.

    Cover your tail as you will. A bill of sale is enough.
     

    IndyGunFreak

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    Mar 19, 2008
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    I might show you my DL if you do not know me just to show I am a resident but that is all I am showing you. And you are not making a copy of anything thank you very much.

    Cover your tail as you will. A bill of sale is enough.

    Pretty much this.

    I'd tell you to pound sand if you tried to copy my DL... I don't care how good the deal was.

    I'd sign a bill of sale and show you my ID, to prove my residency... but that's as far as it would go.

    You might want to make clear to him you want to do this so he doesn't waste his time...
     

    Rdmeed

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Feb 19, 2019
    18
    1
    Silverlake
    If your worried find a local gun dealer to do the transfer usually somewhere in the range of 20$ or ask possibly to ltch but there is no way I would let you copy my dl or ltch for your records or your own search
     

    Expat

    Pdub
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    23   0   0
    Feb 27, 2010
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    Michiana
    I had a guy ask to take a picture of my driver's license once :lmfao:

    Then he asked about a bill of sale, I said I will scribble an illegible signature but won't give you any other information to put on your paper.
     

    LP1

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    3   0   0
    Sep 8, 2010
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    Friday Town
    If in doubt, walk away. Make a note of his car and license plate, or take a picture if you want.

    And watch out for counterfeit money - seems to be a bigger problem as the crooks are getting more sophisticated.

    All of my private party sales have involved both parties showing their DL and LTCH, with nothing being recorded, and that's as far as I'd ever go. All of those sales have either involved ESTABLISHED INGO members with good reputation and a low ratio of transactions to post count, or people I was acquainted with.
     
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