Sale of long gun to Illinois resident (?)

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  • amboy49

    Master
    Rating - 83.3%
    5   1   0
    Feb 1, 2013
    2,293
    83
    central indiana
    I have a Browning shotgun that I’ve listed for sale on another forum. I’ve been contacted by an Illinois resident who wants to buy it. I was planning on sending it to his FFL. He informed me he has an FFL so no problem. As with other out of state sales I have done, I would have him send me a copy of the FFL and then ship the gun to the address on the license.

    The buyer has now thrown in a little twist. He said he is willing to drive to Indiana (he lives about 2 hours away from Indy) to purchase the gun rather than pay me the $50 shipping/insurance cost I told him I would charge to ship it. I think it would probably cost him $25 in gas to drive over, but he proposed the face to face meet so that’s his call.

    I think Illinois residents must have an individual FOID (?) card so I could ask to see that. AND, he says he has an FFL which would also demonstrate that he is not a prohibited person. However, this would represent a sale to a non Indiana resident. Would this be a “legal” sale if I get to see his IL driver’s license and his FOID card or would this represent an infraction of some kind since he’s not an Indiana resident ?

    I’ve done some internet research on the fellow. He owns his own machine shop and is in business for himself building precision rifle actions. He has a website, pics of his shop, rifle range, guns he’s worked on, etc. I’m not worried that he is a person that would be prohibited from purchasing/owning firearms. This is not an inexpensive shotgun and the buyer pool is somewhat limited so I would like to make this work.

    Would I be okay with a face to face sale to a non resident ?

    Thanks in advance. My apologies if this is in the wrong section.
     
    Last edited:

    CPT Nervous

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Mar 7, 2012
    6,378
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    The Southern Bend
    What an interesting situation you've found yourself in...

    Since he has an FFL, I would think you're good to go. No different than sending it to an FFL, just in this case, it's him.

    I could be completely wrong, though. I would think that someone who holds an FFL would know the law. A violation would cost him his license, and livelihood.
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
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    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
    15,419
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    127.0.0.1
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca

    [h=1]To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?[/h] A person may transfer a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, provided the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate intrastate firearm transactions. A person considering transferring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions.
    Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) within the transferee’s State of residence. The transferee may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.
    A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he or she or she does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent.
    A person may transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C 922(a)(5) and 922(d); 27 CFR 478.30, 478.32]
     
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jul 16, 2010
    53
    6
    AVON
    Sounds like a quagmire. Had he not have told you he was not a resident of Indiana, you would be ok. Instead it sounds like he is trying to lure you into something you might otherwise not have done. Hopefully , if his ffl is legit, it will indemnify you. I have in the past had several people send me a copy of their ffl, only to find out they were actually fakes/copies of someone else's they had changed the addresses on! Beware my friend. The lengths some people will go to while trying to circumvent the laws is remarkable.
     

    Slapstick

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 29, 2010
    4,221
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    IL has some funny laws regarding private sales. One is that even if it is a sale between 2 unlicensed people the seller must still contact the IL State Police to ensure the validity of the FOID card of the buyer. I'm not sure but I believe that IL State law also requires that you follow the mandatory waiting period before transferring the firearm to the buyer. As of 01-01-19 that is 3 days for both long guns and handguns. Again not 100% sure on this but if it was me and to be on the safe side, (don't need to run afoul of IL law) I would insist on transferring to an IL FF to complete the sale.

    Found PDF from the IL State police giving a summary of of the law, https://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/firearms052104.pdf It should answer your question. The only change that needs to be made is the waiting period for long guns which now stands at 3 days.
     
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    JHB

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 7, 2016
    502
    18
    Columbus
    Could you go to a local FFL dealer and have them do the transfer? from your FFl(gunstore) to his (personal) FFl

    This^. If he won't go for it walk away. Do not ship to an Illinois FFL unless he paid you. The trouble it may take to get your gun back from a state like that could be unbelievable.
     

    Hawkeye7br

    Expert
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    1   0   0
    Jul 9, 2015
    1,363
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    Terre Haute
    Sounds easy. Do a face to face, require his FFL for your records just as you would if you were shipping. Whether or not he puts it in his official log book is up to him, no different than if you shipped it to him. He may be buying it for himself or for a customer, again, none of your business. As for his drive, maybe he's visiting a friend along the way.
     

    Route 45

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    92   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
    14,884
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    Indy
    This is not an inexpensive shotgun and the buyer pool is somewhat limited so I would like to make this work.

    Would I be okay with a face to face sale to a non resident?

    If you are not comfortable selling face to face, and you figure that his gas cost would be $25 or so, offer to ship it to the FFL of his choice in Illinois for $25 instead of $50. It's up to you whether your peace of mind is worth $25, but for an expensive specialty item with a limited amount of potential buyers, I'd hate to lose a sale on an expensive item over $25. Unless you are in no hurry to sell, of course.

    If he insists on face to face, maybe there is a shady reason. Or maybe not, who knows? FFLs can be faked. FOIDs can be faked. Mailing the gun to a known gun dealer with a verified FFL is the way to be sure.
     

    04FXSTS

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 31, 2010
    1,789
    129
    Eugene
    I am from Illinois and it is a rat hole of corruption and anti-gun laws. Here is the information you need to check the FOID card to see if it is valid. www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/PersonToPersonFirearmTransfer.aspx Get his FOID card number and run it through this site and then you will know if he is legal to own the gun. If this comes back as valid you can go from there, if not I would report him to the BATF or FBI. I do not know how to verify an FFL but I would also want to do that before doing a F to F in Indiana. If you do the F to F to his FFL you are done and can walk away. If doing a transfer to a private person with a valid FOID it will have to go through a FFL on one end or the other. I also believe an Indiana FFL is supposed to follow the Illinois law of the three day waiting period.
    Kind of a sticky situation dealing with Illinois firearm laws and I do advise caution. The gun haters in this state not only keep crying that our gun laws are not restrictive enough they also complain about the "lax" gun laws in Indiana and other states being part of the problem here. Could be an honest person wanting to buy your gun, someone trying to get around the law or a "sting" operation so be safe. Jim.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
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    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,608
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    In the country, hopefully.
    If he presents you with a FOID card (that you now have the knowledge of how to check) and his FFL seems valid then surely that meets the reasonable belief standard and you can not be held responsible past that point. It amazes me how far some people 'feel' like they need to go to 'feel' ok with a sale.
    If we won't sell guns to each other, the anti's win and can move right on to their next goal.

    Worst case scenario, ship the gun to a third party FFL and pay the shipping and fees.
     

    Ingomike

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    May 26, 2018
    28,176
    113
    North Central
    All the risk is not worth the hassle of figuring this out to the dotted i and crossed t level. I'm not sure the penalties but would not risk them for any sale. You can easily pass all risk by having a local FFL make the transfer.
     
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