Accuracy?

[wcd]

So i have my edc set up exactly the way that works for me. Now I am wondering is it possible to get too hung up on punching paper? Is there any real value in trying for the smallest groups? Lately I have been using steel targets for practice I have them in sizes ranging from 4 to 6 inches. I have no issues consistently nailing the Smallest plate at 35 feet. I have my speed where I believe it needs to be and follow up shots are consistently on target as well.

So is that good enough or is there more training value in chasing small groups?

 

[AllenM]

I think being able to hit 4 to 6" steel is good enough for EDC. If you want to go for bullseye shooting I would pick a different gun for that. (Not knowing what your EDC is)

How fast can you draw and hit? That might be the next area to practice. Do you have a timer? that can help to pick up speed.

 

[Goodcat]

I stopped thinking about group size with handgun years ago. Draw to fire, follow up shots, reloads etc are critically more important if you are hitting a 4” plate at 35 feet. Good enough for EDC. I go to 8” plate at 75 feet when slowing things down. Others, shoot 8” plate at 100 yards and would laugh at me though.

 

[DRob]

All of my handgun practice is with my EDC at 7 yards and less. Often as close as 3 yards. Often double taps. Often just pointed with no actual sight-picture acquired on the shorter shots. Center mass is the intended target.

 

[rvb]

There is no ONE thing you have to be good at to be good with your pistol. You should strive to be good at everything (unless your goal is to get into bullseye or similar styles of competing).

Being able to shoot groups IS important. If you can't control the trigger and maintain sight alignment when shooting slow, how can you expect to do it when shooting fast?

What are you bill drill or El Prez results?

what are you 10 yard draw times?

Shot-to-shot reload times?

How is your shooting while moving skill?

Ignoring group shooting is a tremendous mistake. So is focusing on it exclusively.

This is where activities like USPSA are a real eye-opener in what it takes to be truly competent with your pistol.

I have been using steel targets for practice I have them in sizes ranging from 4 to 6 inches. I have no issues consistently nailing the Smallest plate at 35 feet.

frankly, being able to keep shots on a 4" target at ~12 yards is nothing spectacular. Keep striving!! Back when I practiced a lot, my goal was to keep 5 shots centered inside a 7/8" paster at 10 yds (these days I struggle to do that at ~7 yds... shooting is a perishable skill if you don't keep at it!)

-rvb

 

[Disposable Heart]

There is no ONE thing you have to be good at to be good with your pistol. You should strive to be good at everything (unless your goal is to get into bullseye or similar styles of competing).

Being able to shoot groups IS important. If you can't control the trigger and maintain sight alignment when shooting slow, how can you expect to do it when shooting fast?

What are you bill drill or El Prez results?

what are you 10 yard draw times?

Shot-to-shot reload times?

How is your shooting while moving skill?

Ignoring group shooting is a tremendous mistake. So is focusing on it exclusively.

This is where activities like USPSA are a real eye-opener in what it takes to be truly competent with your pistol.



frankly, being able to keep shots on a 4" target at ~12 yards is nothing spectacular. Keep striving!! Back when I practiced a lot, my goal was to keep 5 shots centered inside a 7/8" paster at 10 yds (these days I struggle to do that at ~7 yds... shooting is a perishable skill if you don't keep at it!)

-rvb

THIS 100% I know tons of folks that can put shots within a silver dollar at 35 feet, myself included. But ask them to draw and shoot, can't even put them on paper at 35 feet (I can't silver dollar but 3x5 card is good enough )

Drawing and shooting, integrating reloading, movement, etc... while it's hard to find a place that will let you do it, DO IT. It will pay off big time to integrate these in because no matter what the FBI says the average amount of rounds that are fired during a crime are, that is the average. It can be 0 to hundreds. Remember that. Integrating things that disrupt the usual bang, bang, bang, systematic shooting adds to your skill set and quickens your pace.

Get a shot timer or even a shot timer app is better than no timer. Race yourself, don't go chasing after a number that some forum gave you, or some distance that someone claims is the benchmark. Beat your times and tailor your skillset to your mission. Measure your house. Measure the unfettered distance someone might approach while at work. While out and about, get an idea of how far things really are and you'll find that 35 feet is BS. That's practically shouting distance. The two times I was mugged, one guy jumped out of the brush lining the trail only 5 feet away and had a knife. The second guy was walking towards me and I didn't have a gun (campus) but the cues were there, but did not have time to deviate path as they were already on me, the max distance before I saw them due to a corner was about 4 yards. Everyone get's so hung up on the 7 yards stuff, it's really strange to me. They'll be at 5 yards or less for a direct confrontation. 7 yards or further is trying to stop a crime or someone threatening others and that's an important skill as well. 25 yards or more, that's pop smoke and get to a long gun territory. Handguns can work, but you're needing cover.

Practice all of it.

 

[Brad69]

So I don’t know much but I can tell you that a great shot is just ok when it’s game time a bad shot is probably gonna miss. You are really shooting at two grapefruit sized areas to be effective with a pistol you better be able to hit one of them against an aggressive foe.


BTW
Always remember the “21 foot” rule when training
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y49rv3QBtkk

 

[crewchief888]

the only time i ever strived for small groups was a short time, 20+ years ago, when i was shooting (informal) bullseye matches.
i very rarely punch holes in paper, 99.9% of my shooting is match related, either steel or USPSA. i find with close in USPSA targets i'm not even seeing my dot, more of a point and shoot.
the couple times ive had to draw a carry gun, it's always been at very close range, 10ft or less. if i cant hit "man size" target multiple times without aiming at that distance it's time for me to hang up my guns...

 

[Tombs]

So i have my edc set up exactly the way that works for me. Now I am wondering is it possible to get too hung up on punching paper? Is there any real value in trying for the smallest groups? Lately I have been using steel targets for practice I have them in sizes ranging from 4 to 6 inches. I have no issues consistently nailing the Smallest plate at 35 feet. I have my speed where I believe it needs to be and follow up shots are consistently on target as well.

So is that good enough or is there more training value in chasing small groups?

It's really more a matter of consistency, can you draw and fire off a magazine at a relatively quick pace, keeping every shot in the A-zone from 10 yards? If not, then your grip, recoil control, or some other factor is causing you to not be as consistent as you should be.

Anyone with limitless time can eventually stack a tiny group at 25 yards or more with a handgun. That's really not practically useful for anything.

It's all about how quick you can keep your follow up shots landing where you want them to. Stretching out the distances can be good for diagnostics with a handgun, going up to the 100 yard line and making sure you can still consistent hit a torso sized target is useful for telling you if your trigger control is still in check, but as a practical affair it's not of any real value.

In the end if all your fundamentals are there, you will shoot tiny groups without making a conscious effort to.

 

[wcd]

It's really more a matter of consistency, can you draw and fire off a magazine at a relatively quick pace, keeping every shot in the A-zone from 10 yards? If not, then your grip, recoil control, or some other factor is causing you to not be as consistent as you should be.

Anyone with limitless time can eventually stack a tiny group at 25 yards or more with a handgun. That's really not practically useful for anything.

It's all about how quick you can keep your follow up shots landing where you want them to. Stretching out the distances can be good for diagnostics with a handgun, going up to the 100 yard line and making sure you can still consistent hit a torso sized target is useful for telling you if your trigger control is still in check, but as a practical affair it's not of any real value.

In the end if all your fundamentals are there, you will shoot tiny groups without making a conscious effort to.

Last time I kind of checked it was about 5 seconds from a Draw to get 6 shots off and on targer, while moving. My time might be a little off because i use my fitbit timer. Which is a bit clunky.

I use a Serpa holster, with a cover shirt, practice clearing and drawing as well.

 

[Amishman44]

There are some really good points for consideration for consideration and practice on this thread!
One important factor is to train with what you have...weapon, clothing, etc.
Another good one, and slighly more important than your response time, is to be aware of your surroundings at all times (aka, keep your head on a swivel!)
Being able to see + identify potential danger will, hopefully, give you those few precious seconds to help you begin to take defensive measures...in order to already be in-motion, should something escalate quickly!
Slow is smooth...smooth is fast...and efficiency is more important than just speed!

 

[doddg]

Much wisdom here.
I've been around 2 yrs. (just renewed membership again) and only recently wanting to go from paper to steel.
Level 1 & 2 out of probably what, 10 levels, or at least 5?
Obviously, I'm a slow learner.

I have often thought that if someone really wants evil on you, there is no time for defense, as the video demonstrates.
Therefore, where you go, and what time of day you go, is the best defense, and for the initiated, if it comes down to having to pull your weapon: it's probably too late.
Even if your door at home breaks down, there is no time to reach down into a drawer to pull a weapon out.
(My front door is 10' away from my "man-chair.")
I have greatly appreciated the input from many here, trying to get this poor soul to move "forward," and some has been "tough love."
But, that is how a hard-head like me learns.
Learning from your "critics" is the fastest way to get from point A to point B.
(I learned that in a book copywritten in 1952, and will be sharing that concept in the Commencement Speech I get to give at Graduation in 9 days).
Most of my learning is book-learning , and I have always known in this context here, I am ignorant, which is part of the lure: I love learning, especially from those who "have been there and done that."

Despite criticisms I have received due to my ignorance, I have tried to follow advice given.
I have changed the caliber and size of gun I used to carry.
Bought various holsters for different applications.
Taken classes from a few hours to all day.
I know it is not enough: baby steps.

 

[wcd]

Much wisdom here.
I've been around 2 yrs. (just renewed membership again) and only recently wanting to go from paper to steel.
Level 1 & 2 out of probably what, 10 levels, or at least 5?
Obviously, I'm a slow learner.

I have often thought that if someone really wants evil on you, there is no time for defense, as the video demonstrates.
Therefore, where you go, and what time of day you go, is the best defense, and for the initiated, if it comes down to having to pull your weapon: it's probably too late.
Even if your door at home breaks down, there is no time to reach down into a drawer to pull a weapon out.
(My front door is 10' away from my "man-chair.")
I have greatly appreciated the input from many here, trying to get this poor soul to move "forward," and some has been "tough love."
But, that is how a hard-head like me learns.
Learning from your "critics" is the fastest way to get from point A to point B.
(I learned that in a book copywritten in 1952, and will be sharing that concept in the Commencement Speech I get to give at Graduation in 9 days).
Most of my learning is book-learning , and I have always known in this context here, I am ignorant, which is part of the lure: I love learning, especially from those who "have been there and done that."

Despite criticisms I have received due to my ignorance, I have tried to follow advice given.
I have changed the caliber and size of gun I used to carry.
Bought various holsters for different applications.
Taken classes from a few hours to all day.
I know it is not enough: baby steps.

You are slacking here, no graphs, flow charts?

 

[doddg]

You are slacking here, no graphs, flow charts?

 

[ol' poke]

Back when I practiced a lot, my goal was to keep 5 shots centered inside a 7/8" paster at 10 yds (these days I struggle to do that at ~7 yds... shooting is a perishable skill if you don't keep at it!)

-rvb

THIS 100% I know tons of folks that can put shots within a silver dollar at 35 feet, myself included. But ask them to draw and shoot, can't even put them on paper at 35 feet (I can't silver dollar but 3x5 card is good enough )

Man, I suck! Time to get off the General Firearms Discussion and go visit the Tactics and Training forum....then get to the range!

 

[Agrv8r]

Considering most altercations involving a firearm are within 10 yards, you are doing okay. Of course, you have to prep with worst case scenarios. Weak-hand shooting is where I’m needing more practice. I try and practice my holster draw from multiple positions.
The real world is more than standing in a range at 25 yards and shooting the center out with 20 seconds between shots.
Some good advice has been given already. Good luck.


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