Really am I missing something?

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  • wcd

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 2, 2011
    6,274
    113
    Off the Grid In Tennessee
    Was on a firearms review website the other day, and they were promoting some specific brand of targets with graphics of human organs and a KILL ZONE area of the target. Seems like that has bad idea written all over it? Seriously I can not imagine how these would not have unintended consequences if it ever came up. Like yes your honor I train regularly, what kind of targets do you use? Well I use kill zone targets! Seems like somebody did not think this through? As far as I could tell they were not novelty targets.
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
    15,417
    113
    127.0.0.1
    Was on a firearms review website the other day, and they were promoting some specific brand of targets with graphics of human organs and a KILL ZONE area of the target. Seems like that has bad idea written all over it? Seriously I can not imagine how these would not have unintended consequences if it ever came up. Like yes your honor I train regularly, what kind of targets do you use? Well I use kill zone targets! Seems like somebody did not think this through? As far as I could tell they were not novelty targets.

    I get that things can get twisted in court, and folks are concerned with how things look, but the most important thing would be for any shoot to be a good, clean shoot that was legally and morally justified. I don't really care what folks have printed on their targets.
     

    littletommy

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 29, 2009
    13,015
    113
    A holler in Kentucky
    There are tons of targets in all shapes and sizes that show the internals of a human. Even a generic silhouette with a t shape on the face is intended to show the kill zone.
     

    Mongo59

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jul 30, 2018
    4,448
    113
    Purgatory
    Do you know there are states where it is against the law to shoot at a human shaped target?

    I guess the opposite must be true where hunters walk all over the woods without seeing any bulls eyes and yet the deer signs on the side of the road are shot to hell.

    Can you imagine some of the reports coming out of this ideology?

    "Honesty officer, I had no intention of shooting him until he picked up that trash can lid and held it in front of his head. I couldn't help myself, it was reflex..."
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
    77
    SouthEast
    Anyone carrying should practice killshots. I see no problem here. We don't carry for spur of the moment uspsa matches or impromptu saloon room gun twirling. we carry to kill a threat.
     

    Sniper 79

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    19   0   0
    Oct 7, 2012
    2,939
    48
    Failing to see the problem here. Many own guns solely for defensive use against other people. I would hope they train as much as time and budget allows. Would also hope they use a proper human shaped target and are able to keep projectiles in the"kill zone".
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    Was on a firearms review website the other day, and they were promoting some specific brand of targets with graphics of human organs and a KILL ZONE area of the target. Seems like that has bad idea written all over it? Seriously I can not imagine how these would not have unintended consequences if it ever came up. Like yes your honor I train regularly, what kind of targets do you use? Well I use kill zone targets! Seems like somebody did not think this through? As far as I could tell they were not novelty targets.

    Is it actually labeled "KILL ZONE" on the paper? If so, that's silly.

    Given that, targets that replicate specific anatomical features are very, very important for people who may potentially using a firearm to defend life. "Aim to center of mass" is quite simply wrong, unless you're in a situation where you have limited access and have to pick the best available place to put rounds. Many people are woefully ignorant of human anatomy. For instance, the center of mass of an adult human is normally below the belly button, which is a less than optimal target to maximize chances of stopping a threat.

    Pistols are puny and it's absolutely essential to understand the basis of anatomy (combined with marksmanship) in order to make pistol bullet as effective as possible in stopping a threat. At least occasional use of anatomically correct targets is a good idea. Being taught where to shoot to maximize effectiveness is important, but you have to practice it. That's tough to do on a paper plate or a bullseye target and very easy

    If your reasons for shooting are limited strictly to range fun and shooting sports, then such targets are of limited use to you. You'll be fine with bullseyes!
     

    Ark

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   0
    Feb 18, 2017
    6,735
    113
    Indy
    I don't train for the possibility of defending myself against round bullseye targets.
     

    patience0830

    .22 magician
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 96.6%
    28   1   0
    Nov 3, 2008
    17,590
    149
    Not far from the tree
    Precisely applied force is just that. Applied precisely, matters not what you practice on. What matters is that you hit where you aim. If I can hit a bottlecap at 100 yds, imagining that bottlecap on a perps chest or head gets the desired result.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    30,906
    113
    Indiana
    You train for shot placement.
    Not what is written on the "Tee" shirt.

    It is a simple matter of hitting what you see rather than seeing what you hit...

    Precisely applied force is just that. Applied precisely, matters not what you practice on. What matters is that you hit where you aim. If I can hit a bottlecap at 100 yds, imagining that bottlecap on a perps chest or head gets the desired result.


    All true, but how do you know where to place those shot or hit or aim and how are you going to practice doing it?
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    Do you know there are states where it is against the law to shoot at a human shaped target?

    Which states? Bonus if you reference the law. Seems like a 1A issue...
    I have heard of ranges that ban human shaped targets or pictures of people which is fine for private property to make their own rules...

    -rvb
     

    Ggreen

    Person
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Sep 19, 2016
    3,686
    77
    SouthEast
    Precisely applied force is just that. Applied precisely, matters not what you practice on. What matters is that you hit where you aim. If I can hit a bottlecap at 100 yds, imagining that bottlecap on a perps chest or head gets the desired result.

    It matters what you hit. Ideally you want to turn off the electrical power or poke a hole in the hydraulic pump. A gut shot could get you slashed by a knife. Adrenaline can carry a wounded person a long way. Now, will you have enough time to estimate where the heart is, probably not. Nothing wrong with practiced kill shots though. There is hitting what you're aiming at, then there is knowing what you're hitting will stop the threat.
     
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 7, 2011
    1,229
    38
    All true, but how do you know where to place those shot or hit or aim and how are you going to practice doing it?

    Male or Female 99.99% of human bodies are built the same.
    You know where to hit to take down.
    BUT the first quick shot is to just hit and slow down the aggressor.
    The second hit would be more precise.
    If you want to practice.
    Do the IDPA "ALPresidenta Drill", two to the chest and one to the head.
    Practice until it becomes second nature and speed up your shots.
     
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