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  1. #21
    Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny347 View Post
    While not necessarily this specific incident, LE around the country are becoming quicker and quicker to the gun and like always, we are becoming our own worst enemies. Eventually, we will force legislative and judicial hands to more narrowly restrict lethal force. Just my .02
    I think society is pushing you there.

    On another note, good day for you, glad you're safe, good use of discretion, thank you!

  2. #22
    Ark
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    Sharpshooter Ark's Avatar

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    For that officer's sake, be happy they actually did find a gun and it actually was the perpetrator. Otherwise it looks a lot like smoking some random dude because you didn't feel like running.

    Within the bounds of the law in this instance, but I wouldn't make a habit of drawing and firing on everyone who runs from a stop.

  3. #23
    Plinker

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    It's crazy there's issues like these so frequently now.

  4. #24
    Da PinkFather jedi's Avatar

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    I suspect it's always been like this but with new techs (lep cameras) and more media (now anyone can show video online) we are aware of it more.

    Vs before when only it would be local news if at that

  5. #25
    Expert CampingJosh's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigblitz View Post
    Well, apparently in Colorado, he could have been running with his hands up and still stopped with deadly force to affect the arrest, because he is believed to have committed a felony involving the use of a deadly weapon. Assuming that screen grab is current Colorado code.
    Your screen shot says "physical force." That's not the same thing as deadly force.
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine." -Abraham Lincoln

  6. #26
    Grandmaster Kutnupe14's Avatar

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    This was a good shoot. Odds are he wasn't actually reaching for the gun to engage officers, but given his attire, reaching to stabilize the firearm in his gym shorts while he ran. The LEO isn't compelled to wait to find out which it is. As hard as it is to watch a guy lose his life, I give kudos to the LEOs or after shooting the guy, immediately attempting to render aid.
    I Have the Worst Crew Ever

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    This was a good shoot. Odds are he wasn't actually reaching for the gun to engage officers, but given his attire, reaching to stabilize the firearm in his gym shorts while he ran. The LEO isn't compelled to wait to find out which it is. As hard as it is to watch a guy lose his life, I give kudos to the LEOs or after shooting the guy, immediately attempting to render aid.
    After watching all this and seeing the statute as presented in the video these cops shouldnít have a damn thing to worry about. I agree, good shoot.

    The failure isnít with law-enforcement or gun laws or the 2A. The failure began long ago in the upbringing of these two young men.

    I will freely admit I am so far removed from this lifestyle itís hard for me to comprehend having one of my children end up in anything remotely close to a situation like this.
    Endowment Member, National Rifle Association; Member, Gun Owners of America; Member, Second Amendment Foundation; Member, Marion County Fish and Game Association; Member, Revere's Riders; Rifleman, Project Appleseed; Private Pilot, Airplane, Single-Engine Land

  8. #28
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by CampingJosh View Post
    Your screen shot says "physical force." That's not the same thing as deadly force.
    You are correct. The screen grab says physical force. Here is the Statute for clarification.

    Colorado Revised Statute 18-1-707
    (1) Except as provided in subsections (2) and (2.5) of this section, a peace officer is justified in using reasonable and appropriate physical force upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary:

    (a) To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person unless he knows that the arrest is unauthorized;  or

    (b) To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force while effecting or attempting to effect such an arrest or while preventing or attempting to prevent such an escape.

    (2) A peace officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subsection (1) of this section only when he reasonably believes that it is necessary:

    (a) To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;  or

    (b) To effect an arrest, or to prevent the escape from custody, of a person whom he reasonably believes:

    (I) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony involving the use or threatened use of a deadly weapon;  or

    (II) Is attempting to escape by the use of a deadly weapon;  or

    (III) Otherwise indicates, except through a motor vehicle violation, that he is likely to endanger human life or to inflict serious bodily injury to another unless apprehended without delay.
    I'm gonna, riiiide 'till I can't no more.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    For that officer's sake, be happy they actually did find a gun and it actually was the perpetrator. Otherwise it looks a lot like smoking some random dude because you didn't feel like running.

    Within the bounds of the law in this instance, but I wouldn't make a habit of drawing and firing on everyone who runs from a stop.
    The key here, is the "hands up, hands up, hands up" (the LEO's equivalent of "STOP!").

    I would tend to agree with you, if he complied.

    This one is tough and looked like it could go either way, to the layperson. But the "complying with instructions" part as always is the key. And I suspect if anything, that is the component of the law which will get Denny'ed, as Denny mentions above. Eventually, society will raise the bar on the use of "compliance" as a precursor to a shooting. But it's going to take a while, and a lot more suspects like this one will probably lose their lives if the word doesn't get out. In our society, police have a _lot_ of leeway in how to act with a noncompliant suspect. Society, especially places like Chicago, is going to have to think about the consequences of changing the location of that bar in the sand. Scenes like the above aren't easy to watch. But when that line gets moved, society will change, and not necessarily for the better.

  10. #30
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

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    As HougeMade posted, here's where Indiana law differs, the first part being open to judgement by a reasonable person on a jury.


    (1) has probable cause to believe that deadly force is necessary to prevent the escape from custody of a person who the officer has probable cause to believe poses a threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or a third person; and

    (2) has given a warning, if feasible, to the person against whom the deadly force is to be used.

    This eliminates shooting suspects in the back while fleeing, something Colorado suspects don't benefit from. Hence a more civilized society and a law that's fair to all people inclusively.

    I'm gonna, riiiide 'till I can't no more.

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