Red Flag law question

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  • KMaC

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    A little help please. I have read several explanations of red flag and can't find the answer to my question.

    If a judge confirms that a person should not possess guns and orders that the police keep the confiscated guns is the person compensated?
    Sooner or later there will be someone that has a larger number of guns or very valuable guns. That person may suffer a significant financial loss if he/she isn't compensated and he/she has committed no crime.
    Does the court order the guns sold and proceeds given to the defendant?
    Or is the defendant just sol?
     

    KellyinAvon

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    A little help please. I have read several explanations of red flag and can't find the answer to my question.

    If a judge confirms that a person should not possess guns and orders that the police keep the confiscated guns is the person compensated?
    Sooner or later there will be someone that has a larger number of guns or very valuable guns. That person may suffer a significant financial loss if he/she isn't compensated and he/she has committed no crime.
    Does the court order the guns sold and proceeds given to the defendant?
    Or is the defendant just sol?

    The new legislation that is now in effect introduced language that allows the owner to sue for damages of their property while being seized/in storage. There was no means for this prior.

    As far as the "due process has led to this individual being a prohibited possessor", I think SOL. On return of firearms was my take on the "you can sue the department" language.

    Also, a third-party may now store firearms if the judge agrees.
     

    russc2542

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    It's going to depend on the state and verbiage of the specific red flag law. They aren't all the same. Seeing as most of them are written in the sense of the confiscation being temporary, no compensation is warranted "We're just going to hold onto these for a while".

    The problem is how long is temporary and what happens if temporary isn't? If a person has committed a crime rendering them a prohibited person they don't get compensated... they did whatever caused the conviction.

    Either way... assume the person flagged is SOL unless they can prove otherwise and sue for damages (physical or emotional) or something.

    If you're thinking there are a lot of other issues with them and what I've stated, yes there's a deep deep rabbit hole if you want to go down it.
     

    KMaC

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    It's going to depend on the state and verbiage of the specific red flag law. They aren't all the same. Seeing as most of them are written in the sense of the confiscation being temporary, no compensation is warranted "We're just going to hold onto these for a while".

    The problem is how long is temporary and what happens if temporary isn't? If a person has committed a crime rendering them a prohibited person they don't get compensated... they did whatever caused the conviction.

    Either way... assume the person flagged is SOL unless they can prove otherwise and sue for damages (physical or emotional) or something.

    If you're thinking there are a lot of other issues with them and what I've stated, yes there's a deep deep rabbit hole if you want to go down it.

    My question assumes that after the inital hearing when a court orders police to hold the guns it, becomes nearly impossible (and very expensive) to get that order reversed. Then the confiscation becomes permanent for all practical purposes. Does anyone know someone that actually got their guns back after a red flag court order? I just can't see a judge being willing to risk his career by saying "We were correct in taking your guns cause you were dangerous but your better now so we'll give them back".

    If the owner hasn't broken any laws (made threats, assaulted anyone, he just doesn't seem right to a relative for example) he has lost a lot of value (potentially tens of thousands of dollars) by having the guns confiscated without fault on his part.

    This seems to be a taking without compensation which I thought was unconstitutional. It seems logical and fair that the law cap the time that the confiscation can last before calling it permanent and forcing compensation to the owner.
     

    bwframe

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    Is it only matter of time, as these laws (with no template) become commonplace, that the word gets out to the anti's, libs, ANTIFA, terrorists, etc. that there is massive room for exploitation?
     

    Hop

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    Just remember how long IMPD held my pistol when I was rear-ended in a car accident. Not my fault, no tickets, no charges. IMPD wouldn't release my property until I got Kirk involved & threatened to sue. ~6 MONTHS! I had to go buy another pistol for EDC.
     

    KMaC

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    In Indiana, there is a procedure for the guns to be transferred to a "responsible person" or for the guns to be sold with the proceeds to the owner minus not more than an 8% "administrative fee".

    https://casetext.com/statute/indian...ctive-712019-request-to-sell-retained-firearm

    https://casetext.com/statute/indian...-firearm/section-35-47-14-15-effective-712019

    Thank you! That's the information I was looking for. I'm glad to see that these provisions are part of the law.
     

    Hawkeye7br

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    Thank you! That's the information I was looking for. I'm glad to see that these provisions are part of the law.

    Sold to who? To gun dealers who will bid only 30% of the true value? Or to a police department that wants to get your guns off the street and pays you their version of its depreciated value?

    This has corruption written all over it, and the owner is the big loser.
     
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    KMaC

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    Sold to who? To gun dealers who will bid only 30% of the true value? Or to a police department that wants to get your guns off the street and pays you their version of its depreciated value?

    This has corruption written all over it, and the owner is the big loser.

    sell the firearm at auction under IC 35-47-3-2 and return the proceeds to the individual or the rightful owner of the firearm, as applicable.
    I assume this means a public auction.
     

    edporch

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    There's no question in my mind that "red flag" laws will be abused to disarm us and steal our property.

    Especially if they don't have tons of Due Process protection, and the burden of proof is solely on the government to PROMPTLY prove a person is incompetent to have firearms at least beyond a reasonable doubt.

    In the end, "Red Flag" laws will hurt innocent firearm owners most, because as they become more commonplace, mass shooters will know to keep quiet about having firearms, and know to simply stash the firearms they plan to use someplace until they're gonna use them.
     
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    bwframe

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    Maybe I've missed it among the numerous INGO red flag law threads?

    Do we have any links to where a judge has returned confiscated firearms to their owner for a mistaken red flag?
     

    2A_Tom

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    still waiting on the disposition of the INGO member, It may be years.
     
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