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  1. #81
    Grandmaster 88E30M50's Avatar

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    I get it that private businesses have the right to choose who they serve but what was the outcome when a baker decided that making a wedding cake for a couple that went against his religion was something that he didnít want to do? His private business decision was not his to make when he decided to discriminate against a segment of society.

    How is this different? If Walmart had said that it was Ok with gays in their store as long as they didnít hold hands or otherwise display their orientation, do you think that the gay community would respond with ĎWell, Iím not a hand holder, so Iím good with thatí?

    Maybe we need to treat this as a civil rights issue.
    Ď88 (aka Ď88, the mad scientist)

  2. #82
    Grandmaster 88E30M50's Avatar

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    A while back, there was a pro-Islam campaign that portrayed every day people as being of the Islam faith. The point of it was to help people understand who it was that they had been pointing to when saying that the Islamic faith was evil. By portraying members of the Islamic faith as neighbors, doctors, coaches and all other types of people that we respect, it helped to remove the idea that members of the Islam faith were the boogey men that they had imagined them to be.

    We need to do this with pro-gun EDC folks. Right now, a large segment of the population thinks that pro-gun equates to skin heads, racists and wanna-be Wicks. We need to help people understand that we are friends, neighbors and average people that choose to take responsibility for our safety.

    Lots of us carry. By forcing us to CC, the anti-gunners are making sure that the message that normal people carry does not spread. They want us to keep the guns under wraps so that the only exposure to them that the undecided see are the negative stereotypes that the media has built up.
    Ď88 (aka Ď88, the mad scientist)

  3. #83
    INGO Homebrewer JettaKnight's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2A_Tom View Post
    I am amazed that we have people here on INGO that do not realize that it is not about OC.
    Depends on the viewpoint -
    For gun-grabbers, it's stepping stone to victory.
    For gun-owners, it's a loss of freedom (if you like OC), manifested in the practical form of an inconvenience.
    For store owners, it's a way to placate soccer moms, and mitigate conflict.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
    Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

  4. #84
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88E30M50 View Post
    I get it that private businesses have the right to choose who they serve but what was the outcome when a baker decided that making a wedding cake for a couple that went against his religion was something that he didnít want to do? His private business decision was not his to make when he decided to discriminate against a segment of society.

    How is this different? If Walmart had said that it was Ok with gays in their store as long as they didnít hold hands or otherwise display their orientation, do you think that the gay community would respond with ĎWell, Iím not a hand holder, so Iím good with thatí?

    Maybe we need to treat this as a civil rights issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    Depends on the viewpoint -
    For gun-grabbers, it's stepping stone to victory.
    For gun-owners, it's a loss of freedom (if you like OC), manifested in the practical form of an inconvenience.
    For store owners, it's a way to placate soccer moms, and mitigate conflict.
    Sorry for jumping in late, so forgive me if this sentiment was expressed already...

    I tend to agree with the analogies you're trying to make 88 but there are big differences. As JK points out, soccer moms have grown comfortable with seeing homosexuals being themselves in public now. They have not done so, seeing some "operator" roaming the store with an AR at low ready.
    INGOer #18,319

  5. #85
    Grandmaster WebSnyper's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88E30M50 View Post
    I get it that private businesses have the right to choose who they serve but what was the outcome when a baker decided that making a wedding cake for a couple that went against his religion was something that he didnít want to do? His private business decision was not his to make when he decided to discriminate against a segment of society.

    How is this different? If Walmart had said that it was Ok with gays in their store as long as they didnít hold hands or otherwise display their orientation, do you think that the gay community would respond with ĎWell, Iím not a hand holder, so Iím good with thatí?

    Maybe we need to treat this as a civil rights issue.
    As someone else stated, should be Constitutional Rights even beyond civil rights, but I agree, though the 2nd Amendment applies to govt not private individuals as far as the infringement as far as I am aware. The root of the argument regarding discrimination is that we, as folks exercising our 2nd Amendment rights, are not considered a "protected group" when it comes to discrimination, though the 2nd Amendment does (though how effectively is at question) protect us from govt infringement of the right.

    Not a lawyer, so happy to have those who are jump in on this area specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by 88E30M50 View Post
    A while back, there was a pro-Islam campaign that portrayed every day people as being of the Islam faith. The point of it was to help people understand who it was that they had been pointing to when saying that the Islamic faith was evil. By portraying members of the Islamic faith as neighbors, doctors, coaches and all other types of people that we respect, it helped to remove the idea that members of the Islam faith were the boogey men that they had imagined them to be.

    We need to do this with pro-gun EDC folks. Right now, a large segment of the population thinks that pro-gun equates to skin heads, racists and wanna-be Wicks. We need to help people understand that we are friends, neighbors and average people that choose to take responsibility for our safety.

    Lots of us carry. By forcing us to CC, the anti-gunners are making sure that the message that normal people carry does not spread. They want us to keep the guns under wraps so that the only exposure to them that the undecided see are the negative stereotypes that the media has built up.
    I agree with this. A campaign by NRA or others, regarding "I carry and here's why" showing "every day people" could accomplish this (though I think this has been done in the past, more if it would be good).
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_N_Stein
    I am trying to turn every thread I involve myself in into a **** show.

  6. #86
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    I have had a discussion with Open Carry Indiana several years ago.

    Their opinion was that since we do not have Constitutional Carry of handguns they will carry AR's openly to bring awareness to the issue.

    I told them I thought they were going to cause more harm than good.

    Case in point, today!




  7. #87
    Plinker

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    I share your frustration by the hapless push back from the 2nd amendment / gun community but I think it's more a case of not knowing WHAT to do rather than being UNWILLING to do something. With the NRA in full hunker down mode with their own problems we seem leaderless and just kind of drifting. Additionally, your points about the other groups sitting the fight out because they aren't directly affected are also spot on but again, our side isn't lifting a finger to make our case. Our side is absolutely horrid when it comes to the kind of messaging and vocal expression that is required to move the needle in a modern world. Personally, I'm writing letters to the editor and I'm pressing local TV news directors but I have no way of knowing if it makes a difference. We seem to be on a path to things no one wants and will want even less when it gets here.

  8. #88
    INGO Clown printcraft's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSnyper View Post
    I get this, but I struggle with the fact that private entities (non govt) property owner's have rights as well. Now, that said, I don't want to support these businesses, and I also definitely don't want them doing what Dick's Sporting Goods did and actively lobbying for gun control, but they do have rights on who to do business with (think baker and the customer who demands a cake for example) and they do have rights on admittance to their property. Of course, the left stomps all over these rights when forcing business owners to serve "protected groups", etc.

    That said, I guess when these businesses make this political, and make these big media statements, they definitely are open to peaceful protest, etc as part of the process.
    Oh, they absolutely have the option and right to not bake the cake. It's their call.
    They should have the right (as should everyone) to refuse service to any person or entity for any reason.
    And just like the baker the .gov should NOT be involved in any way shape or form, stand or fall on their own business merits.
    The media and moms demand attention/ gun confiscation lobby are behind these moves.




    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    What does squat lifting and bro curls have to do with this?
    Freaking iphone autocorrect, its really a hinderance.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinNFluff View Post
    At a family gathering, my sister was getting ready to leave. She walked up and gave me a hug and said "Your phone is poking me." I smiled and replied simply with "That's not my phone".
    Quote Originally Posted by Leggdpms View Post
    ...he said alright sir and shaked my hard and said he has respect...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8088 View Post
    I cocked my head to the side a little and was admiring his piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by JettaKnight View Post
    And seriously, where are those testicles being served? I want to just shove a handful into my mouth.

  9. #89
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny347 View Post
    Because OCing in Indiana is SO RARE that the public doesn't care, it never really did. Let's not be too overly dramatic about the effects of private businesses asking it's customers to cover their sidearms.
    That works well for us here in IN to cover, but what about states that only have OC? You now have to disarm & leave your protection in your vehicle

  10. #90
    Grandmaster DoggyDaddy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by printcraft View Post
    Oh, they absolutely have the option and right to not bake the cake. It's their call.
    They should have the right (as should everyone) to refuse service to any person or entity for any reason.
    And just like the baker the .gov should NOT be involved in any way shape or form, stand or fall on their own business merits.
    The media and moms demand attention/ gun confiscation lobby are behind these moves.






    Freaking iphone autocorrect, its really a hinderance.
    I have an Android, so I don't know if it's an option on an iphone, but I have my autocorrect and "type ahead" (where it offers "suggestions" on what it "thinks" you want to type) disabled. I found it annoying and distracting. I'll type what I want you freaking machine. Mind your own business!


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