Gun Community Myopic and Asleep. Ideas for action needed.

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  • mergatroid

    Marksman
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    Apr 30, 2018
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    INDIANAPOLIS
    Regarding the Kroger/Walmart/ CVS/ Walgreen's etc, etc, etc. massive "virtue signal" project that is underway. I am amazed how short sighted some of our fellows in the gun community appear.

    I actually heard someone who I consider "smart" say, "It does not effect me, I don't open carry."

    Wow, just wow. I'm having a hard time equating that logic with a simile. Can someone help me out!

    "I don't have daughters so sexual assaults don't effect me"? Or "I'm not Jewish so antisemitism does not raise my ire"? Or "I don't carry cash so no one would mug me."?

    Losing gun rights in the courts and the legislatures is one thing, losing them in public opinion without any push back is foolish and inexcusable.

    We need some ideas on how to turn this around.
     

    WebSnyper

    Maximum Effort
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    56   0   0
    Jul 3, 2010
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    127.0.0.1
    I'm not saying it doesn't bother me. It does. But there is no comparison between losses in legislature and courts to rules that a private sector business puts in place which is their right to do, whether I like it or not.

    I am in no way a Fudd or a butter (as in those that say they support the 2nd but...), however courts and legislature is what really matters. I'm not looking to support these businesses, and I will definitely say their calls for more gun control crosses a line... These businesses should stay out of lobbying against my rights.
     

    mergatroid

    Marksman
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    Apr 30, 2018
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    INDIANAPOLIS
    Thanks for your reply. But.....

    I think we can all agree that Laws start in public opinion. Enough public opinion that "those nasty people should not be allowed to open carry or concealed carry for that matter" is what greases the wheels against us.

    A strong reaction signalling we will not give up our rights, or as they say in the boardroom, push back, should be considered.

    How about taking a selfie of your empty holster and a full shopping cart in front of the service desk, where you leave the cart with a note. "This is what I would have been buying this week"?

    Push back, not lay down.

    Public opinion matters.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
    Emeritus
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    187   0   0
    Dec 7, 2011
    191,809
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    Speedway area
    I'm not saying it doesn't bother me. It does. But there is no comparison between losses in legislature and courts to rules that a private sector business puts in place which is their right to do, whether I like it or not.

    I am in no way a Fudd or a butter (as in those that say they support the 2nd but...), however courts and legislature is what really matters. I'm not looking to support these businesses, and I will definitely say their calls for more gun control crosses a line... These businesses should stay out of lobbying against my rights.

    These businesses are running scared. Scared of the tribal backlash of a group of loudmouthed rock throwing protesters and the pressures being put on them from corporate to act like they actually care.This is all about legality's and isolation from actions. Lawyers to the left of me jokers to the right.
     

    Ddillard

    Master
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    33   0   0
    Apr 29, 2016
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    Jeffersonville
    These businesses are running scared. Scared of the tribal backlash of a group of loudmouthed rock throwing protesters and the pressures being put on them from corporate to act like they actually care.This is all about legality's and isolation from actions. Lawyers to the left of me jokers to the right.

    +1 CM. Agreed. The sad truth is it is just a handful that cause the backlash, and it all leads to thuggery by the mass anarchy-prone mobs.
     

    mergatroid

    Marksman
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    Apr 30, 2018
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    INDIANAPOLIS
    HoughMade

    Gun owners and citizens that see that these actions equates to a "Jim Crowing" of law abiding people who were dumb enough to believe the Constitution. Us.
     
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    88E30M50

    Grandmaster
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    12   0   0
    Dec 29, 2008
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    Greenwood, IN
    Thanks for your reply. But.....

    I think we can all agree that Laws start in public opinion. Enough public opinion that "those nasty people should not be allowed to open carry or concealed carry for that matter" is what greases the wheels against us.

    A strong reaction signalling we will not give up our rights, or as they say in the boardroom, push back, should be considered.

    How about taking a selfie of your empty holster and a full shopping cart in front of the service desk, where you leave the cart with a note. "This is what I would have been buying this week"?

    Push back, not lay down.

    Public opinion matters.

    That’s an interesting idea. If a number of people would do their normal shopping and then just walk away from the cart after making it known that they are an open carrier by uncovering an empty holster, it might make the point.
     

    KellyinAvon

    Blue-ID Mafia Consigliere
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    Dec 22, 2012
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    That’s an interesting idea. If a number of people would do their normal shopping and then just walk away from the cart after making it known that they are an open carrier by uncovering an empty holster, it might make the point.

    Interesting, empty holster events have been used successfully on college campuses. It would need to be a large and well coordinated event. The problem at colleges is they don't have holsters. We don't have that problem.
     

    halfmileharry

    Grandmaster
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    65   0   0
    Dec 2, 2010
    11,450
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    South of Indy
    Regarding the Kroger/Walmart/ CVS/ Walgreen's etc, etc, etc. massive "virtue signal" project that is underway. I am amazed how short sighted some of our fellows in the gun community appear.

    I actually heard someone who I consider "smart" say, "It does not effect me, I don't open carry."

    Wow, just wow. I'm having a hard time equating that logic with a simile. Can someone help me out!

    "I don't have daughters so sexual assaults don't effect me"? Or "I'm not Jewish so antisemitism does not raise my ire"? Or "I don't carry cash so no one would mug me."?

    Losing gun rights in the courts and the legislatures is one thing, losing them in public opinion without any push back is foolish and inexcusable.

    We need some ideas on how to turn this around.

    It's always been the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Why would it be different now? Sure, the media is pushing this agenda and rousing up those of simple minded thinking.
    We as gun owners, 2nd Amendment supporters, hunters, sportsmen, need a strong voice, clear thinking, and able to dislodge the socialists.
    This is just the base root of a larger problem this country is breeding.
    It's time to VOTE. No more excuses and lazy behavior.
    This country is in trouble but we CAN help.
     

    KittySlayer

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 29, 2013
    6,473
    77
    Northeast IN
    How about taking a selfie of your empty holster and a full shopping cart in front of the service desk, where you leave the cart with a note. "This is what I would have been buying this week"?.

    I LIKE this. I might have some ice cream in my cart too.

    {edit} okay, I’ll leave the ice cream in the freezer, but their staff can spend time reshelving the things I would have bought.


    I think we can all agree that Laws start in public opinion. Enough public opinion that "those nasty people should not be allowed to open carry or concealed carry for that matter" is what greases the wheels against us.

    Public opinion matters.

    In this era of “we must do something” politicians will like stunts like this “common sense” approach. The last step will be you sitting in your home in your recliner holding your gun waiting for UPS to deliver your MRE’s. If the anti 2A’s get their way this is the only time you will get to touch your gun. This is a slippery slope as I expressed elsewhere.

    Walmart, Kroger, Walgreens, CVS... all come out with the same No Open Carry policy within 24 hours of each other. This is no coincidence as entities this size are incapable of making decisions that quickly. These policies have been in the works for weeks (months, years) just waiting for the right time to rollout. I think they were all waiting for the big gorilla (Walmart) to go first, but they were all ready to follow the big bully.

    Today is No Open Carry, but don’t kid yourself, they all have Gun Free Zones as their ultimate goal. Think about how many states where signs have force of law instead of a leave the premises or trespass. We are on a slippery slope. Use your dollars and your emails to express your disgust with these companies policies. They are all whores to the dollar bill and if this recent stunt impacts their bottom line they may think twice about going the next step to full Gun Free Zones.
     
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    fullmetaljesus

    Probably smoking a cigar.
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    6   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    5,849
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    Indy
    I like the idea of doing something, a demonstration or March etc etc. But leaving full carts of perishable foods in stores is a dick move.

    We don't need anymore negativity.
     

    eldirector

    Grandmaster
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    10   0   0
    Apr 29, 2009
    14,677
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    Brownsburg, IN
    We vote with our feet and our wallets. Works pretty well for businesses, especially when we let them know why.

    Dear WalMart and Kroger (and now, possibly, Meijer),
    I am greatly pleased to hear that your profits have risen to the point you can be more selective on your customer base. As 1 in 15, roughly 330,000, of Hoosiers are licensed to carry a handgun by the State of Indiana, your decision to exclude them as shoppers indicates you have more than enough money. Luckily, there are other shopping options that are just as convenient and cost-effective. Our Independent Grocers are still looking for new shoppers, as are other regional chains. Online ordering and delivery is making a huge push as well, and makes no judgment about me as a person, what I own, what I carry, or what I believe.

    I can't speak for others, but I and my family will do our best to support businesses who support us. Or, better yet, support businesses who provide quality products and services for a fair price, without engaging in "the whim of the day" political and social issues.

    Best of luck,
    The ElDirector Family

    On another note... It does bother me that the "gun-butters" stay on their couches. A simple email to a few folks, and a few weeks shopping "down the road" would be a strong message if told 330,000 times. But, alas, "this doesn't impact me directly, so I'll just sit on my thumbs until it is too late, and then complain about it".
     

    halfmileharry

    Grandmaster
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    65   0   0
    Dec 2, 2010
    11,450
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    South of Indy
    the ONLY attention getting action will to be to hit them in the pocketbook long term.
    Companies need to be boycotted that support any anti firearms/2nd Amendment establishment.
    Advertisers need to know that there are repercussions to these actions.
     

    2A_Tom

    Crotchety old member!
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    Sep 27, 2010
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    There is not enough money in our pockets to hurt them.

    There are many here that will just cover and continue supporting them. That is their right. They probably outnumber us 5:1.
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Jan 19, 2009
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    ^ This.

    Voting and paying law/lobby firms is how you get things done.

    Unaccountable, obtuse, leadership at these businesses made these decisions and they don't care about any sales they might lose.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
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    This was the attitude that allowed the AWB to happen.

    I think we've advanced since then and have (generally) more of a "First they came for the assault weapons...." attitude.

    Granted, the bumpstock fiasco doesn't bode well, but I think the gun community overall isn't complacent. We let the legislators know - as best we can - that they should not support more gun control. Of actual guns, not accessories (apparently).

    The bigger problem is that we might be overtaken in numbers. Once we are a voting minority, it may not matter how vocal we are.
     

    MarkC

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    Mar 6, 2016
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    This was the attitude that allowed the AWB to happen.

    I think we've advanced since then and have (generally) more of a "First they came for the assault weapons...." attitude.

    Granted, the bumpstock fiasco doesn't bode well, but I think the gun community overall isn't complacent. We let the legislators know - as best we can - that they should not support more gun control. Of actual guns, not accessories (apparently).

    The bigger problem is that we might be overtaken in numbers. Once we are a voting minority, it may not matter how vocal we are.

    ^^^
    This is my concern (well, among others). As we are courting skilled workers from other states, especially Illinois, they will bring their (more likely than not) liberal values with them. Look what happened to Colorado, for example.
     

    2A_Tom

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    39sod3.jpg
     
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